ABRSM: what do you think?

zxxz wrote:

Maybe I am an "atypical adult" because I'm not interested in skipping steps...

... instead it is very typical of adults and is an indication of seriousness, so it is not serious

zxxz wrote:

I searched for the various Italian ministerial programs, but to me they are too vague.

For the traditional courses, everything was also very precise... if I'm not mistaken, something had been reported by someone; I'll do a search and see what comes up.

You can find a trace here, but I know there are those who can be extremely precise...

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/2060-passare-a-terzo-anno-di-conservatorio/?hl=heller&do=findComment&comment=16905

Ettore wrote:

For the traditional courses, everything was also very precise... if I'm not mistaken, something had been reported by someone; I'll do some research and see what comes up.

I have opened an ad hoc topic

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/3305-scuola-di-pianoforte-principale-programmi-di-studio/

@Zxxz

As soon as I have a moment I will get to your questions, in the meantime do you have a trace of the ministerial programs that were in vogue until recently in Italy

Here is Zxxz, thanks to the relentless Frank; meanwhile, you can draw from a structured program that has produced several great masters and pianists from the '30s of the last century to the present day

I can say that the program must be customized for each student; it is difficult to find something that works for everyone... for this reason, the most suitable pieces for that specific student are often chosen from didactic works, alongside that slice of repertoire pleasing to the student but which is also a "mandatory" step for growth.

I mean that after 4 or 5 of Bach's two-part inventions, one must choose 4 or 5 of the three-part ones... then another couple of French suites, then another couple of English suites... etc...

Everything freely chosen but in progressive order and with "mandatory" milestones

The same goes for sonatas, from Clementi to Mozart and Beethoven...

...etc.

In any case, even a reflection on the ministerial programs can help... at least to know what level of difficulty the works you may have already studied refer to

Thank you so much everyone! :-)

I will compare it with what I have studied so far and maybe I will ask you for help to select exercises or pieces from the various indicated works... if I ask my teacher, I am sure she will answer "you choose"... :-( and no... I cannot change teachers... :-)

I will not dwell on the programs already exhaustively produced and commented upon by the competent Frank and others. I would like to say a few words regarding what zxxz is claiming in terms of "technique". The teacher would like to emphasize that Technique is Music. Agreed. The technique book must serve not just to repeat exhausting exercises, but to understand basic formulas and apply them with the well-known "fundamental gestures" already illustrated by me in the piano technique Tutorials. It is nonetheless appropriate to insist more on those elements that are not natural to us and to study them more. It is also useful to research these elements and the solutions to achieve them within the pieces of the great Authors. Cortot, in his Editions de travail, clearly illustrates how to "dissect" difficulties and work on them in order to, in his words, reapply them to the piece. Studying all the scales without encountering the scales of Mozart's or Beethoven's sonatas is sterile work. The last two scales of Chopin's first Ballade are nothing more than a G minor scale played in straight motion and by tenths. But in the context of the piece, they offer an exceptional experience beyond the study of the G minor scale. Let us say that all the technical elements we encounter in a composition are "motivated" by an emotion. The great Callas advised doing vocalises, yes, but she said: "..One should think of singing a vocalise like a phrase of Love". That is, "the motivated sound". Therefore, let us not abandon ourselves for too long to pure and simple gymnastic "exercise". In my opinion, it does not serve much purpose. A little bit of this and a little bit of that... and with awareness. In medium stat virtus (I wonder if my Latin is still correct?). This is what I think

Hi pianoexpert,

I completely agree with you! In medio stat virtus... in fact, I don't intend to do technique for the sake of doing technique... in my opinion, the ideal approach would be to take a piece, analyze it by identifying the technical building blocks necessary to tackle the piece, and work on (perhaps in parallel) the piece itself and the related technical exercises...

In your example, if I were to study Chopin's first ballad, it would be useful to study the G minor scale for running notes and for tenths at the same time...

The problem is that I, being a beginner, am not able to analyze a piece by extrapolating the technical difficulties, let alone find related technical exercises... that would be one of the teacher's tasks... and if the teacher doesn't do it, then I have to organize myself alone... :-) maybe by asking idiot questions on a forum :-)

In my ideal imagination, every piece should be accompanied by a series of technical exercises preparatory to the piece itself... for you experts this is certainly immediate... but for a poor beginner like me, no :-(

P.S. anyway, now I'll look for your tutorials :-)

zxxz wrote:

My teacher is okay, she's always ready to help me, but she doesn't follow a program... it's neither "standard" nor tailored... we almost never check technique exercises (unless I ask her to) and she practically always lets me choose the pieces to study... then usually I am the one proposing technical studies because according to her, technique is developed by studying pieces... and when she is the one choosing the pieces, it feels like wandering aimlessly (for example, while I am studying my first little Bach prelude, she gives me a "simple" two-part invention to study...)

Is it not that you are doing great (in short, you don't show particular technical problems when playing the repertoire), you make good choices regarding the pieces... so she doesn't get into the details?

Is it possible to feel her at work and see her? Just to understand if she "doesn't care" or if she is "trusting"...

We look forward to hearing some of your performances, even if only audio recordings.

With a little bit of embarrassment... here are some links to my "youtube channel"... it always makes me smile when I say "I have a youtube channel"... LOL...

Here is more or less everything that I have studied in this year and a half...

NOTE: I tried to put links to the playlists but only the first video is displayed... so if you want to see the other videos of each collection you have to go to youtube... or explain to me how to do it? :-)

J.S. Bach - Notebook for Anna Magdalena:

M. Clementi - op. 36 no 1:

F. Chopin - Valse La m posth.:

R. Vinciguerra - I preludi colorati:

I look forward to your comments

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

I take the liberty of giving my opinion. You are very composed and attentive, and this is good. The performances lack a bit of phrasing and color. Technically, you are a bit too "stiff," avoiding highlighting contrasts and responses (Bach). In the case of Chopin, one must acquire the concept of rubato... which does not belong only to Chopin... but which in Chopin is essential. The pedaling should be changed better (with this so-called "ordinary" pedal). It would be interesting to apply a "striking" pedal, that is, the pedal you should "apply" on strong accents: hand down, pedal down. It would also be useful to experiment with the fall of the fingers with their weight and to highlight the attack fall a bit more. Everything must be naturalized, however, just as you have well naturalized the elements acquired so far. Naturally, it is difficult to suggest guidance in words. It is up to the Teacher to observe and suggest closely!!! Happy studying

P.S. If possible, have the piano tuned and voiced

Hi pianoexpert,

thank you so much for your message! In a few sentences, you have perfectly summarized my whole situation

Chopin's waltz was an error in judgment since it is (not yet) within my reach... I will treasure your precious advice and try to put it into practice when I pick it up again...

As for tuning and voicing the piano, I have been putting it off for too long... tonight I will send an email to book the technician's visit.

The following points also seem rather urgent to me:

pianoexpert wrote:

[...] The performances lack a bit of phrasing and color. Technically you are a bit too "stiff," avoiding highlighting contrasts and responses (Bach). [...]

Regarding the absence of colors and contrasts, sadly I realize it myself as well... yet I try... but it seems to me that I get different results when I change pianos; for example, when I play at school, where the keyboard feels heavier than mine and consequently I manage to hear the dynamics as I actually try to play them... whereas at home, no matter how much I try, everything seems more or less flat... and typically too loud... I hope the technician's intervention can help in this sense... but regardless, I realize that I have heavy hands... my teacher tells me that a certain sensitivity of touch comes with practice (and time)...

As for phrasing... I really need to work on it... if I hear performances that are not mine, I notice the differences, but when I play, the phrasing is in my head but doesn't reach my hands... I will insist with my teacher on this point...

Tomorrow I am bringing the little prelude BWV 939 to my lesson and it will be a great study opportunity to make the theme reprises sound good... which at the moment do not sound as they should (in fact, I don't like my execution at all)...

By any chance, are there pieces, studies, or exercises that could help me develop a certain sensitivity of touch or phrasing? Or is it enough to play what I am already studying properly?

Anyway, thank you so much for the time you are dedicating to me!

zxxz

You can do the waltz. It is not that demanding. (Then also the waltz op. 69). In fact, it induces you to move the left hand more and gets you used to expression. Speaking of expression, Heller's Studies for expression, I believe op. 47. They are useful and fun. Then start Bach's 23 easy pieces and, alongside them, at least the first two books of Bartok's Microcosmos. Clementi's sonatinas, the third and the fourth. Technique books: Rossomandi, various volumes. For scales, I would buy Finizio, which groups them in a proper way. Hanon NO!!!!!!

The hands do not do what the head says: We often believe we are achieving what we think. In reality, our idea, although it exists, comes out timidly. One must force oneself to highlight choices with great decision, even if they seem a bit exaggerated to us; we will have time later to refine them. Everything that sounds right actually originates in a stronger and more decisive way. Listen to a pianist from the middle of the hall and close to the piano. What we hear on a recording or see in a video arrives somewhat filtered and attenuated. The same goes for an actor or a singer. Inside them, great tension and vocal volume with well-supported breath arrive naturally and "correctly"... but try listening to them up close!!!! The sound, whether vocal or instrumental, must be more "public" than "private"... even when we play in our own homes, we must think about this! Therefore, one should not be afraid to play a "piano" (softly) in an "eloquent" way. What differentiates piano from forte is the atmosphere and... the participation of the left hand and the accentuation that becomes stronger and more important. Happy studying.

P.S. Yours is certainly a good instrument. Have it tuned well and INTONED well, a bit softer. It certainly results in being very resonant and strident and therefore, psychologically or rather psychoacoustically, induces you to "withdraw" your natural support of the instrument, something that does not happen at school, because that instrument, having more substance, does not "produce" an excessive sound. Bring the sound out with decision and sincerity; then, later, one will learn to take weight off the shoulder to move towards "half-tones" and towards piano and pianissimo. A little articulation by learning to let the fingers fall with their own weight. Develop the contact of the fingers with the small phalanges, which must grip without the slightest rigidity of the entire muscular apparatus, small and large (See my Tutorials).

@Zxxz

I confirm Pianoexpert's analysis; it must be said that the performances are orderly, which is already positive for a student of your level. In time, musical maturity and the control to express it best will also arrive.

Sometimes little is enough even if it is difficult; listening to Vinciguerra, for example, you will notice that you cannot play all the notes of the left-hand arpeggios with the same intensity, and overall the left hand cannot have the same weight, in terms of dynamics, as the right hand which carries the melody.

One path could be to play, record yourself, listen back, and try again to correct what is not satisfactory... even by taking small little pieces and striving specifically to create two sound planes.

The most fluid piece, on the other hand, seems to me to be precisely Clementi, which requires less difficulty compared to Chopin regarding sound and agogics. It seems to me that there are good premises nonetheless, and it is truly just a matter of having the patience to follow that path that almost all of us have taken or are currently taking.

Hi zxxz,

I am only just now reading this lovely topic!

Yes, I have already discussed this ABRSM story in other topics and honestly, I reiterate that I don't believe in it much... But that is just my opinion.

I believe that a pianist should know the classical music pieces in their entirety, as they cannot be portioned and fragmented by studying the first movement of a Mozart sonata and forgetting the other two; the same goes for Beethoven, the same for Bach's suites, and everything that follows. When an author wrote a piece, they certainly intended to provide continuity and, for example, in sonatas, the second and third movements do not exist simply because the sonata form must be tripartite.

I have the impression that that syllabus represents somewhat of a shortcut compared to the ministerial programs provided here in Italy until a few years ago, which, to tell the truth, were also quite exaggerated: knowing Bach is fine, but studying an entire volume of The Well-Tempered Clavier for the eighth year seems excessive to me.

Regarding the performances you posted, I agree with what they have already told you... Having posted pieces publicly, I take the liberty of telling you a few things I noticed: you have a beautiful hand, structured and orderly, but too much

I don't know how to thank you for these comments! I keep reading them over and over to internalize them. I realize it will take time, but I am bracing myself and continuing to try

On Tuesday I played the little prelude BWV 939 in class and the teacher was quite happy since I played it more or less at tempo and without errors... but I felt a bit like a trained monkey... too mechanical and cold... I explained my feelings to her and she told me that I played that piece 'à la noire' while I should think of it 'à la blanche', and she herself noticed the phrasing problem... we worked on it a little and I will continue to do so during these two weeks without lessons... then she asked me to choose an invention... the 1st or the 8th... hmm... I don't know if I should wait and perhaps do another Clementi sonatina (the 3rd or the 4th)... anyway, I asked her openly to work a bit more on expression and phrasing in general... and she was inclined to do so

The technician is coming on Monday; I asked for 'harmonisation et accordage' and they asked me for the modest sum of 388 eur... I will certainly ask to soften the timbre, to make it less ringing and more mellow, then I also wanted to ask if it is possible to make the keyboard heavier... what do you think? What else do you recommend I ask?

For the program to follow, I thought of using the Italian one as a guide but making a selection of pieces/studies/exercises from the indicated books... for this, maybe I will ask you all for help too

Thanks again and I wish you a good night!

zxxz