Charlie Parker: Donna Lee

measure 8 : me too for the substitution. What do you mean by unisons, are you referring to the F# that remains stationary?

measure 10 : in my part there is Gb7, I hear it as a modal movement, Gb as the VII of Ab but I'm saying that somewhat by feeling.

Section B : the A is natural and indeed they play G instead of B natural.

In case it is not known, the original piece is Indiana

micamahler wrote:

the starting track is Indiana

I didn't understand

Donna Lee is based on the chords of Back home again (Indiana)

Hi Frank! A while ago I made a transcription of the theme for Donna Lee and I noticed a couple of curious things: most interpretations of this piece seem to be based on the version that appears in the first Real Book, but I have never found a Parker recording that corresponds exactly to that transcription; for example, in all the (Parker-style) versions I have heard, an A natural is played at measure 21, not B-flat.

The block chord harmonization of the first three measures might present some problems: in my opinion, the entire phrase is shifted two quarter notes late; in other words, if it started on the first beat of the first measure, it would correspond to the charted chords; thus some notes, like the G-flat at measure 3, turn out to be a bit tricky to harmonize...

I should listen to the original again to see if there is a tritone substitution at measure 8, but in any case, it shouldn't affect the harmonization particularly: if you think of it as Ab+7(b9) or D9, you essentially harmonize the same way.

The discussion about unisons is not clear to me.

Same thing for measure 10: it doesn't seem to me that there is a Gb7 in the original (I wouldn't swear to it), but anyway this shouldn't affect the harmonization either; in the end, it's just a bass movement, somewhat like in the tritone substitution (between Db-6 and Gb9, essentially only the bass changes). The succession Db-7 Gb7 Ab∆ (IV- bVII7 I) is always a bit of a subject of discussion; I would still see it as an elaboration of the plagal cadence (minor IV / I) in which, to create more harmonic interest, the bass is made to move so that, superimposed on the IV-, it generates the bVII7; it is sometimes called a backdoor progression. The possibilities would be Db-, Db-7 Gb7 or just Gb7; in any case, the harmonization of the melody would not undergo major variations.

The B natural at measure 8 sounds strange to me, could you attach your version?

Here is the transcription

DrJellyfish wrote:

B natural sounds strange to me at measure 8, could you attach your version?

As I was saying, at measure 8 of the B, which is 24

Here it is

Regarding unisons, how would you analyze the melody notes in measures 7 and 8?

Measure 7: do mib sol sib lab mib fa (over Ab), for me they are all chord notes except for the third note (sol) which is a tension and the fourth note sib which is a scale note

Measure 8: solb sil re fa (over Eb-7 and E natural do (over D7): the first 3 notes belong to the chord, the fa begins to be a tension like the E natural on D7.

... from this perspective, what would come out in terms of harmonization?

I would say

7: Do, Eb, G, Ab and F chords; Bb tension.

8: Gb, Bb, Db and C chords; F and E tensions.

A basic harmonization that strictly adheres to the notation could be this one.

Frank wrote:

I was taking a look at Charlie Parker's Donna Lee, and I would like to read your thoughts, particularly on:

- at measure 8: the version I have presents a tritone substitution of D7 instead of Ab7 (I imagine Parker's original). In both cases, imagining an arrangement for a saxophone section (given the stylistic context, I am referring to the block chord technique), are there more widely accepted solutions to avoid unisons?

- at measure 10, don't you think a Gb7 is missing between Db-7 (measure 10) and Ab (measure 11)? Harmonically, how do you consider, in this context, the resulting succession of Db-7 Gb7 Ab?

In general for section "B"

- at measure 5, is the first A not natural?

- at measure 8, I see a B natural written relative to the G which seems to be from the original... I prefer it given the following chromatics

Thanks to anyone who wishes to contribute.

I am responding to Frank's initial post: given that the Real Book is not an official book at all, in fact, it isn't even a real book—the first version was actually called the Fake Book, from which, by contrast, subsequent versions became "Real Books"; also given that I find the choice to harmonize such a fast and complex theme with block chords to be "risky," with the danger of creating a succession of intervals that end up masking the melody and creating "noise"... all this being said, Frank's questions have a fairly simple answer.

1) Generally, harmonization via block chords is for 4 voices with a doubling of the lead; in the case of saxophones, I imagine there are 2 altos, two tenors, and one baritone or, given the peculiarity of the piece, it could also be 3 tenors without a baritone—one loses something in terms of frequency fullness but gains in terms of the actual possibility of performing such a theme. The notes to be harmonized in the D7 harmony are E natural and C. E natural is a tension, whether we consider it as Ab harmony (it would be a #11) or as D (major ninth), so it must be harmonized with the chord tones (from top to bottom we will have E (lead) - C - A (or Bb) - F# - E (doubling of the lead at the bottom)); on C we will have C (lead) - A (I would advise against Bb to avoid the upper second interval) - F# - Eb (or D) - C (lead doubling)). This harmonization works whether you consider the chord to be D7 or Ab7.

I didn't understand the point about avoiding unisons; I ask Frank to clarify.

2) A Gb7 is not necessarily missing; there it is a IV (Db) - IVm (Dbm) - I (Ab), a well-known harmonic sequence; if they want, the bassist can play Gb without the pianist changing the harmony. Let's consider that the piece is very fast, so I wouldn't overstuff it with too many harmonic insertions. Furthermore, there is another consideration: the Bb in the melody (3rd move, meas. 10), if the chord were Gb7, would be a banal 8th, whereas on Dbm it is an 11th, thus a more interesting note.

3) meas. 5 of B: the A is flat, we are going to F minor, why should it be natural?

4) I also prefer the B, and it is also more justified both harmonically and stylistically; incidentally, nobody plays G there, everyone plays B....

To recognize tensions, the logic is very simple: I, III, V, VI Major, and generally VII are considered chord tones; from the IX onwards they are tensions; tensions are harmonized with the notes of the chord.

In some contexts, the VII is considered a tension, but it is usually considered a chord tone.

No one will play B but for example Parker and Pastorius will

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

First of all, I thank you for the answers and the interest

I was thinking about the 5 sax section, precisely because of the relationship to the tempo of the piece and the fact that stylistically the versions I have listened to refer back to block chord technique... I fear that unisons in the Saxophones might lead to weakening the swing. Obviously, arrangement solutions can vary, but even during the harmonization phase, I didn't want there to be "basically" parts born with unisons... and that substitution to D7 doesn't help (as well as the Ab7, for that matter). However, I have read your suggestions; I would say they are interesting.

For @Geppino

2) I agree on the solb discussion, but it seems to me that Parker always does this succession, though I am surely mistaken

3) I don't know, but many report the natural, and some videos I have listened to seem to confirm it

4) Perhaps I caught a fake recording, but it really seems to me that Parker plays Sol... in fact, I was making it a matter of my own taste and coherence.

For @DrJellyFish

Regarding bar 7: why would the sol, which would be a maj 7, be chordal? And Bb Tension when it is a scale note that points straight to a state of rest? Furthermore, fast note on the upbeat... at that tempo, in my opinion, it's too little for a tension, no?

Anyway, aside from reading your comments, I would also like to do some trials... I will let you know.

Actually listening again I notice that most play G, no, I remembered incorrectly....

Frank wrote:

I don't know, but many report the natural, and some videos I have listened to seem to confirm it.

For measure 7: why would the G, which would be a maj 7, be chordal? And Bb Tension when it is a note of the scale that points straight to a state of rest? Furthermore, fast note on the upbeat... at that tempo, in my opinion, it's too little for a tension, no?

Anyway, aside from reading your comments, I would also like to do some trials... I will let you know.

As Geppino also said, the root, the third, the fifth, the sixth (major), and the seventh are considered chordal; the ninth, the eleventh, and the thirteenth are considered tensions.

If we then think of tensions as accessory notes, we can also include the augmented and diminished fifth (with the exception of seventh chords of the fourth and fifth species, in which it is chordal). For the perfect fourth, the matter is more ambiguous. It depends on what definition we give to harmonic tension.

The position and duration of a note can cause it to be treated as non-chordal (and harmonized accordingly) to avoid repeated notes and provide more variety to the voicing.

As for the infamous A natural, I also think that A flat is more correct (and probably sounds better); the fact remains that I have never heard a Parker version in which he played A flat, and I doubt he was wrong every time...

I am also not quite clear on the matter of unisons (the original theme is all played in unison...), particularly why it refers to that specific measure.

Sorry guys, I've been totally out of it lately (and there is a reason for that... quite a bit...)...I meant octaves and not unisons

geppino12575 wrote:

given also that I find the choice to harmonize such a fast and complex theme using block chords to be "reckless",

In your opinion, what tempo would actually be sustainable in this scenario?

Measure 24, C7#9...what chord is it? Thanks

AbateFaria wrote:

Measure 24, C7#9...what chord is it? Thanks

A dominant seventh chord with the augmented ninth (in this case D#). Did you mean in this sense?

Frank wrote:

Sorry guys, I've been totally out of it lately (and there is a reason for that... well...) ...I meant repeated notes and not unisons

To avoid repeated notes, in some cases, you could cross the voices.

As I was saying Doc, I didn't want to resolve the repeated notes at the arrangement level, so as you say... for example by crossing the voices; I was looking for harmonic solutions that I found in the independent lied