for experts: practice and requirements for obtaining the piano diploma

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

how many years does it take?

5 years of High School + 3 years of the three-year degree + 3 years of the two-year specialization

or

5 years of pre-academy + 3 years of the three-year degree + 3 years of the two-year specialization

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

how many hours, on average, must one practice per day? (I am talking about an average..... at least something that you consider not to be below the
acceptable,

i know well that 6 hours are better than two, but how many hours do you think is below the limits of the
acceptable to obtain the diploma? )

The diploma no longer exists, or rather, the traditional one (the classic 10 years) does not exist, but there are first and second-level diplomas.

That being said, everything depends on one's own abilities... it cannot be quantified in advance

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

how many pieces must one know how to play, and of what types? (sonatas? entire concertos? I don't know....)

how many 'studies' (like Czerny, etc.) must be learned?

what would be the level of difficulty for the final year, and what would be an example of a piece that would reflect such a level?

I am talking about having an
idea, perhaps it is difficult to give precise indications.

On some websites (such as the Milan Conservatory) the programs are public, so one can be very precise. The problem is that every conservatory has its own programs, so you would then have to ask the administration to be sure.

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

The graduated pianist I have in mind would be a typical pianist who is competent and has solid technique, not someone who is a genius or who practices 10 hours a day.

In general, is the pianist-pianist who practices the same amount of hours as the pianist-composer always better as a pianist?

This deserves an ad hoc topic

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

And finally: who among you has broken their own record for daily practice?

Back in the eighth year (old system) I used to spend even 15 hours a day.."}

Marta, you are a very precise person and an attentive Musician, and I also believe you are very capable... however, I must disagree on one point: I don't think it is beneficial to study 15 hours a day. You will say— "but what is he saying!!??". I believe that mental control is fundamental, and after half an hour one must stop so as not to risk falling into "automatic training"... while the brain rests. As you well say, these arguments deserve a topic of their own. I believe I have written more than a little on the subject. It cannot be resolved in four words. Let us instead refer back to the Great Teachers like Nehaus, Leimer, Casella, etc., who advised working about 4 hours at most, divided into eight half-hour sessions!!!!! The day is over and it is worth, then, getting some fresh air. It might seem like a superficial argument. In an advanced course many years ago, unfortunately, I listened to a great Polish Maestro who said to a Student who could not play a passage with confidence: "..I passed by her room while she was practicing... I heard for half an hour ta-ta-ta, ta-tà- ta, ta-ta-ta (he was referring to the initial chord jump in Chopin's study 'Revolution')... I thought perhaps it is better to take a walk. She either catches it or she doesn't. She must think about catching it and then she will catch it. She is not collecting much from her study now... in fact, once she catches it and twice she doesn't. She should take a walk and reflect." The Student, indignant, left the lesson crying, but, miraculously, the next day she had overcome her insecurity. Perhaps she had "taken a walk" and had reflected. It was visible from how she managed the dangerous jump of that measure and how she "thought" about "catching" those notes. Maestro satisfied. Perhaps, that day, that pianist had learned a lot. These were advanced courses preparing for the Chopin Competition selection.

P.S. The example is not intended to be a reference to your study method, which will be and certainly has been "solid," but rather a response and a warning for our friend "pianistamaggiorenne". I remember, however, that I also studied a lot in the eighth year, which consisted of an extensive program (old system).

Best regards,

paolo

pianoexpert wrote:

Marta, you are a very precise person and an attentive Musician, and I also believe you are very capable

Thank you for the kind words

pianoexpert wrote:

...but I must disagree on one point: I don't think it is beneficial to study 15 hours a day. You will say— "what is this person saying!!??". I believe that mental control is fundamental, and after half an hour you must stop so as not to risk falling into "automatic training"... while the brain rests.

But I agree, we were talking about records... and besides, I was 17 years old, I was resilient, I had fun like a crazy person. There are kids today who spend 15 hours a day in front of the PlayStation... okay? I had other forms of entertainment and an eighth to bring home; it happened before exams to go all out with revision and the necessary breaks. Surely it didn't happen every day, eh

useful links taken from the Milan website

New path

Possible High School (Liceo)

http://www.consmilan...=liceo_musicale

Pre-academics

http://www.consmilan...ndex.php?id=656

Three-year degree (Triennio)

http://www.consmilan..._PIANOFORTE.pdf

Two-year period (Biennio)

http://www.consmilan...RTE_BIENNIO.pdf

Comparable with the old study program that Marta herself had posted here:

http://www.pianoconc...604-una-domanda

thanks to everyone, everything is very interesting. Paolo, yes, I understand what you are saying; in fact, my post, deep down, connects to many other specific things, such as the dilemma of 'more hours, poor practice' or 'fewer hours and efficient practice', and naturally I am not referring to Marta, but to a student who has problems with inefficient practice. Marta, what you wrote, that 15 hours a day you 'had fun like a madwoman', struck me deeply; in fact, I read something about why some people learn faster, and I believe it is very important to do everything possible to make practice as pleasant as possible, otherwise what happens is that we mentally associate practice with an unpleasant sensation, which is ultimately what causes one to practice less or not at all. I think that is what you did, and this fact plays a big role in 'who makes it' and 'who doesn't'. By 'who makes it', I simply mean having an efficient mastery of the instrument; I am not talking about fame, income, or social status. PS: do you have any videos of yours around? I am curious

Paolo, incredibly, the type of practice you mentioned, 4 hours a day divided into half-hour sessions, is what I also designed a couple of months ago, but so far I haven't managed to practice more than 2 and a half hours; unfortunately at this age (as my nickname says, I am 38) it's no longer like when you are kids, the whole day passes by in a flash. It's a good thing I'm not married and don't have children (though I'm certainly not saying being married and having children is a bad thing, it's just that if I had a family, obviously I could practically forget about the plan)

Czerny, in his letters, writes that 'you will be surprised to know that in one day, much can be done, if time is not wasted' and he indeed recommends 3 hours a day, if one practices well.

This point about 'practicing well', not just 'practicing for as much time as possible', is something for which I will open another post; I think there are many details, for example writing a list of everything that needs to be done in the coming hours, and practicing slowly and with the metronome, instead of jumping on the bench and starting to 'play'

Chopin, thanks for the links, very interesting, I will watch everything today

thanks to everyone

You can watch my videos on the Mozart sonata, perhaps just to see how I relate to the instrument. I give examples and play phrases, explaining how the piece could be approached technically and musically. (I still have to record the third movement... as soon as I have time available with the help of Simone, who is busier than me, I will do it).

For Marta: I like knowing about this enjoyment of yours on the instrument, which I hope still exists. You are right, it is rare to play at 15 years old with a musical instrument with such enthusiasm! Congratulations!!

thanks Paolo. I already knew the videos, I watched them all immediately as soon as I registered, I didn't waste a minute Everything is very interesting, I hope you will make others soon, bye

I haven't seen these videos on Mozart's sonata, where can I find them?

on "piano technique". I believe the last two.

section link

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/pages/tecnica-pianistica

Thank you, I saw the videos yesterday, very interesting. Are you thinking of making some videos on the studies by Chopin and Liszt?

It could be a good idea. Perhaps they could be done in collaboration with a friend of mine, who is very close to me!! We will see if there will be space, ..time... and availability. I am talking about Chopin's Op. 10 studies. A fundamental work. Furthermore, Chopin's studies are fantastic musical pieces and it would be interesting, beyond identifying the fundamental pianistic gestures necessary to overcome the difficulties, to talk about form, tempo, rhythm, phrasing, fingering, etc...

Who is it?

It's you!!!! Since you anticipated to me that you are preparing all of Chopin's op. 10...... it would be interesting to do some demonstrations and talk about it together, comparing notes, on video. I would find it interesting not a complete performance, but rather examples of significant passages with relative comments and suggestions for approach. All this, while making reference to the fundamental basic gestures of technique. What do you say? We would see, naturally, if we have the time, provided that you agree.

Goodness, the whole op. 10. you understood, thesimon? Not something for everyone! It would be beautiful and very interesting. Thesimon, give us this gift...

Let's keep calm... I said that I am preparing all of op. 10, I didn't say that I had finished it. For the moment I have half of them: no. 1, 3, 8, 9, 10, 12.

The idea would be to do all of op. 10 and then move on to op. 25. The problem is that the effort becomes exponential because with Chopin's studies, if you leave them for a moment, you have to go back and review the various passages again. It had been a while since I last played no. 12; I played it again a few days ago and I had to work on it again to bring it back to Chopin's metronome and note clarity. Practically every time you study a new one, you still have to review all the previous ones as well, that's why I say the effort is exponential. I don't think I will be able to finish all of op. 10 anytime soon because I have to finish university this year. I am pushing to finish my exams at the end of June/beginning of July so I can then write my thesis. If for now you are satisfied with these six numbers, that's fine with me, no problem. Maybe when I have finished the others from op. 10, we could do another one with the remaining ones and then perhaps others from op. 25. (It all depends on time, which unfortunately I don't have right now). Besides, before these videos, we also have to finish those that Paolo had started with Mozart's K. 330 in C Major. (Third time). In short, there is work to do, quite a lot... But sooner or later we always manage to satisfy everyone.

Does it seem like little to you? I have done two of Op. 10; I don't have very long fingers and for me it was truly a struggle, even studying a lot I don't think I can ever bring it to performance speed or otherwise for a competition or a concert. I have to constantly make leaps, especially for no. 9 where the left hand is terrible in terms of extension. I challenge anyone with small hands to play it at speed, which is impossible since one must constantly leap. The other one I did is number 3. Apparently simple at the note level, in my opinion, it has a remarkable difficulty regarding cantabile. In essence, however, I believe Chopin's studies are part of the piano repertoire that cannot be enjoyed by those who have not been lucky in terms of hand size or natural talent, so to speak. Making videos to see some of them would be a wonderful initiative that few have done. Especially as an approach to studying. I mean that on YouTube there is a sea of videos on how to play Für Elise or otherwise pieces of very limited technical difficulty. No one, or very few, measure themselves against such feats; this is what makes the difference between professionals and smoke sellers, precisely because the technical difficulty cuts out all the charlatans. Beyond the usefulness to the forum users, I believe that even the video authors would be positively rewarded for diversifying themselves from the street performers who profusely populate the YouTube platform.

Considering that there are those who have done all of op. 10 and all of op. 25, it seems a bit little to me!

I am at 1/4 of the work. But I will also complete the marathon...

Anyway yes, some numbers are indeed a bit prohibitive for those with small hands, but if one wants to, they can still be done. And it is also true that it is not necessary to bring number 9 or number 11 to a competition; one can select by bringing, for example, number 2, 5, in short, numbers that are very easy regarding hand size. The others perhaps cannot be played at Chopin's metronome, but I think they can still be managed.

As for the videos, as soon as we have a few free days we will try to get a little ahead and will also queue these up since they seem to have aroused interest and in fact were practically requested.

Referring to YouTube, I take the liberty of partially disagreeing (with exceptions) with what you said. A piece with low technical difficulty does not necessarily mean it doesn't hide other pitfalls. Difficulty aside, in my opinion, professionalism comes from many other facets regarding the way things are said, the ease of expressing certain topics, mastery of the field of study being discussed, and accessibility to the audience it is aimed at. There are different ways of talking about Per Elisa on YouTube; one of these could be speaking historically about the Bagatelle, analyzing bar by bar and contextualizing the melodic lines in a "prosaic" way, if you will. Thus, even an apparently simple piece like Per Elisa acquires a certain charm and a certain difficulty within a professional context. Then, for goodness' sake, everyone on YouTube uses the first movement of Beethoven's Sonata op. 27 (Moonlight) and Per Elisa to create visualizations (I have done it too), but that is another matter.

Well, you are halfway through op. 10, which is not bad at all. If only I were there, and then with those numbers! 1, 8, 9, and 10, I could even forget them. Unlike you, I don't think they can be played the same way if one doesn't have a nice large hand, because I have a small hand and I know well what that means. Personally, I don't believe those who, with a fairy-like little hand like mine, come to tell me they are able to play those numbers at the speeds suggested by Chopin; in fact, I assure you that, having played the piano, it was all just nonsense to show off. Keeping the hand wide open throughout the entire study is truly exhausting, to the point that even if one could manage the leaps at speed and Chopin's study with a metronome as you say, one would have to stop after the first page to avoid tendonitis. Things done with excessive effort are never good, and I suffer from major problems when I overexert myself and maintain unnatural postures; therefore, I don't believe that small hands can successfully perform this type of repertoire, and in particular those 4 studies you are doing.

I wasn't talking about levels when I was discussing Für Elise, try to understand me; I know well that professionalism is determined by level and everything you wrote, but if you search for Für Elise on YouTube, all sorts of things come up. There are some whose ability to upload certain videos I cannot explain, others who explain how to play disco music on the piano, others who make tutorials on how to play the Pirates of the Caribbean theme. Certainly, one can recognize a professional in these things as well. A small example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4JD-3-UAzM

I am not including non-professionals out of respect, but just go to YouTube and search for "He's a pirate piano," and everything comes up.

If you put Für Elise and the Moonlight Sonata on your channel to increase views, I am sure you did so with a very specific purpose, and I am equally convinced that the level of performance will not be like that of many other YouTubers, many of whom are truly pathetic. Making a video that speaks professionally about Chopin's studies is a topic that mathematically cuts through and immediately filters out this entire slice of users. What I mean is that Chopin's studies are not only played by professional pianists, but by professional pianists who are also good.

Open content (youtube)