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Johann Sebastian Bach - aria variata in the Italian style

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antares86

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Opening post by antares86

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Good evening everyone! I started studying this series of variations about a month ago... for now, I am proposing the aria and the first 3 variations; they don't sound perfectly as I would like yet, but we will get there...

I recorded it on a Carlo Grimaldi harpsichord from the second half of the 1600s with Vallotti temperament; the ritornello of the aria is in the version from the book for Andreas Bach.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVRElxWUNOMkc3ekk/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVVXFZaElRekotVTg/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVTk96SUZWZm1lTXc/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVLWVET191b01Qbmc/view?usp=drivesdk

Here they should be in the correct order... I'm not uploading them directly here because they are .wav files and I don't even have time to convert them to mp3 right now.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVRElxWUNOMkc3ekk/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVVXFZaElRekotVTg/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVTk96SUZWZm1lTXc/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVLWVET191b01Qbmc/view?usp=drivesdk

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Reply 2 by nancy

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hi i can't listen to the second and third variation....it's asking me for permission ?!?!?!

anyway the listening is pleasant....in the variation you are more sure than in the aria, that is, you can hear that you are studying it. but it's great....i like it...

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Reply 3 by antares86

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Hi, I need to recharge them all! These are old, as soon as I have a moment I'll do it since I unlocked them too

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Reply 5 by antares86

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I have reached variation 5 or 6... I'll fix it later

The air [the flow] came out shaky because... I don't quite know how to do it yet ahahahah I used the version in Andreas Bach's book for the refrains and I wouldn't want to use the original version for the first parts... so I was trying to embellish a bit without exaggerating

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Reply 6 by antares86

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVYVFWMTgxdGZ3YVk/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVbGVQSm5vQy1HMm8/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVN3BRRmYzNzEyOWM/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVLWVXMlZWSnVlbkk/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVeWRGRXM0aVd6MGc/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVR2xSam8xa0RVYXc/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVZC1JNTk4UFU3a2c/view?usp=drivesdk

There you go, let me know if you have problems opening them or if I copied some links incorrectly...

Anyway...I've been on vacation for 5 days and I already can't stand it anymore!!! I want to go back to work!!!! Ahahahahah

I forgot, same Grimaldi harpsichord, Sicilian, but a different temperament...if I'm not mistaken, I had put the Rousseau temperament here; I love French temperaments, especially Rameau is the Rousseau one.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVYVFWMTgxdGZ3YVk/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVbGVQSm5vQy1HMm8/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVN3BRRmYzNzEyOWM/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVLWVXMlZWSnVlbkk/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVeWRGRXM0aVd6MGc/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVR2xSam8xa0RVYXc/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVZC1JNTk4UFU3a2c/view?usp=drivesdk

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Reply 7 by nancy

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thanks! i opened them all without any problems and above all... i listened to them very gladly.. .

now i am saying a great heresy....is it the different temperament that made the timbre more full-bodied?

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Reply 8 by antares86

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Nothing more likely... every temperament has its own particular characteristic... the Vallotti I had set at the beginning didn't please me much... then I started trying the French ones... this one, among other things, is by Jean-Jacques Rousseau... but there is also Rameau's temperament... actually, there are 3 in truth! Just like the Rameau ones... I adore French temperaments, haha, and they are also not used much.

I'll give you another example... a few weeks ago I had set a meantone temperament and played Frescobaldi, the first toccata... Well, on meantone it's a whole different story; meantone has all fifths tempered to make all thirds pure, it really gives you that ancient feeling, but Frescobaldi sounds divine on it... it has some limits though; the wolf fifth is the largest, and then in older meantone temperaments, the chromatic keys are fixed: C#, Eb, F#, G#, Bb, and if you have to play a D#, you certainly feel the difference!!! If you have a third on D#, you can hear that it is decidedly wider, because it's a B-Eb! This applies especially to the 1/4 comma syntonic meantone; the 1/6 one is much more adaptable... French temperaments, on the other hand, are mostly almost impossible to tune by ear... I use a tuner, which does practically every temperament or almost all of them... French, German, Italian... a few weeks ago I was testing some good temperaments to see which one adapted best to Das Wohltemperierte Klavier

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Reply 10 by antares86

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I forgot the photo but... I recorded the first two preludes and fugues from The Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1... I will upload them shortly... I am finishing studying them so they are still a bit rough

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Reply 11 by antares86

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Let's act cool... the next piece I will do (I only read it a little bit on the harpsichord today) is... Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue!

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Reply 12 by antares86

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Announcement announcement, later this evening I will upload the almost final version of the aria and the first 2 variations; from Monday I will upload the others two at a time

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Reply 13 by antares86

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVWjF3NUFhZUlRTmc/view?usp=drivesdk

Here are the theme and the first two variations for you; if anyone has problems opening it from Google Drive, I will upload it elsewhere

Nancy, one of these Mondays sooner or later I'll remember to take a photo of myself at the harpsichord... too bad I don't have the white wig ahahaha

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVWjF3NUFhZUlRTmc/view?usp=drivesdk

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Reply 14 by pianoexpert

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An interesting listen, and it would also be interesting to delve into the great world of temperaments. I agree with the fact that some temperaments are more congenial to certain keys and that therefore, before equal temperament, to which we pianists are accustomed, clinging, comforted, .... many other solutions were truly more refined. A good harpsichordist can be capable of modifying their own tuning from time to time and therefore, why not, return to belonging to a historical image of tempered sound. Equal temperament wanted and wants only to provide an ultra-practical solution for all keys, and today the student is willing to accept less or nothing regarding the reason behind the choice of a C minor preferred by Beethoven or some Mozartian G minor. Therefore, Nancy's observation is not only, in my opinion, pertinent, but also denotes a great sensitivity to listening.

Compliments on the study you are doing, antares86!!!!

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Reply 15 by antares86

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thanks!!! Personally, I am experimenting with almost all temperaments on the harpsichord... from meantone onwards; I find some of them truly beautiful, others a bit less... let me give you an example: at the moment I am using Rameau temperament on the harpsichord for Bach... and the recording is indeed with Rameau temperament, while I was studying the preludes and fugues, having reached C-sharp major... oh my goodness!!! It has a sound that is to say particular... not to say... ugly!!! At least ugly to conventional ears; some intervals are decidedly wider and narrower than equal temperament (and the harpsichord I use at school uses equal temperament because it has to play in an orchestra).

Personally, I love French temperaments, from Rameau to Rousseau to the near-equal 1/5 comma schisma; other good temperaments are Kirnberger and Werckmeister. Kirnberger is also relatively easy to implement and sounds quite good as well. A temperament that I have never liked very much is Vallotti instead... or is it just me who cannot yet tune it properly... Or perhaps among them all, it is perhaps the most mediocre.

Let's say that for purposes involving up to 1/2 alterations, most temperaments work more or less well... the more they increase, the more the problems increase.

Personally, I tend to use temperaments historically... Until the mid-1600s, meantone (there are various more or less tempered ones); for the late French Baroque, French antique or Rameau; for the Germans, Vallotti or Werckmeister; for Viennese Classicism, either Werckmeister or Rousseau; for Sturm und Drang and Romanticism, I find Kirnberger very suitable... at least until well into the mid-nineteenth century.

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Reply 17 by antares86

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVNVBTcDN5U1VMVnc/view?usp=drivesdk

Skipping the last six/seven seconds while I was briefly trying out the 4th variation... tomorrow I really won't be able to get around to studying, or even recording, so there are two instruments that need to be entirely regulated; we will talk about the rest next week.

On the other hand, on Wednesday I have my first harpsichord lesson since late June, finally!!!!!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVNVBTcDN5U1VMVnc/view?usp=drivesdk

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Reply 18 by antares86

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Today I had a little bit of time (a miracle) and I recorded 3 variations

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVdVBSUFA2TUkxUzA/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVbUFkbnZEMmx1aHc/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVdVBSUFA2TUkxUzA/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yO3Vxa3NyVbUFkbnZEMmx1aHc/view?usp=drivesdk

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Reply 19 by antares86

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I fear that later on, to your immense misfortune, you might even feel like the harpsichord part of the musical offering...

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Reply 20 by antares86

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It seems to be official now, at least in part; you will have the misfortune of hearing me study the harpsichord throughout the year, at least the two ricercars for 3 and 6 voices from the musical offering! If we find a violin, a flute, and a cello, it's not impossible that we might even do the canons and the trio sonata (maybe).

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