I have a question regarding my YAMAHA YU10 upright piano (2004) which I picked up last Saturday.
I should mention that I have been studying piano since August, that my lessons with my teacher are on a waiting list, and that this is my first piano. 😉
The E of the middle octave has a metallic noise that disturbs the note and continues in the background while holding the key; once the key is released, the damper comes into action and as the string vibration fades, the metallic noise also disappears. 😕
Do you have any idea what it could be? Could it be a tuning issue, although in my humble opinion I doubt it, or could it be a more serious problem?
The piano was purchased from a famous shop in Milan and is from 2004 at a price of 4800 euros; I hope I wasn't unlucky.
For the rest, I am extremely satisfied with the piano... I spend hours and hours on it without noticing the passage of time....
Hi Fabio, for a more certain and in-depth answer I recommend waiting for the reply from Pianoexpert who is currently in Frankfurt for the music fair. In the meantime, I'll give you my impression. Let's start with the simplest things: the noise you describe sounds almost as if the vibrating string were hitting another nearby string. It needs to be understood whether this metallic noise resembles a buzz or if it is simply a sound that doesn't feel as docile compared to the other keys. You should record the sound and post it here in the discussion so at least we can try to make an adjustment by ear. We await your post!
It needs to be understood whether this metallic noise resembles a hum or if it is simply a sound that doesn't feel as docile compared to the other keys. You should record the sound and post it here in the discussion; at least then we can try to adjust it by ear. We await your post!
Simone
Simone, you hit the nail on the head,
my doubt was whether it's just my obsession; it's as if the note plays correctly but in the background this high-pitched metallic sound is perceived, which is negligible compared to the "volume" of the note, but it can be heard.
It's easier to notice it as soon as the key is released because it continues for a very short time, so this makes me think of a metallic vibration that shouldn't be there because no other note does it; the others are clear.
They do it in the second octave (the last of the bass clef), the E and slightly less the F next to it.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I hate having a nearly new piano for a week and having a defect that probably shouldn't be there.
I spoke with Pianoexpert and he was very kind; he gave me some tips. Anyway, the shop that sold it to me has made itself available to come and check it as soon as they are in my area, hopefully soon, so I will also have the chance to update you on the problem. 😉
As soon as I can record the sound I will post it; I hope it can be heard and isn't covered by the note.
😕😉 ;) 😉
S
stefano
Member
Reply 4 by stefano
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205
Hi Fabio,
let us know and send the file, I am curious too...
Before recording it, try to understand which area of the piano it is coming from. I understand that this is difficult because the soundboard amplifies and it becomes hard to understand where an unwanted noise originates. Once you have figured it out, place the microphone in that direction and let's hope it can be heard.
Before recording it, try to understand which area of the piano it is coming from. I understand that it is difficult because the soundboard amplifies and it becomes hard to understand where an unwanted noise originates. Once you have figured it out, place the microphone in that direction and let's hope it can be heard.
Ok, alright, but tomorrow I have to leave for work; as soon as I get back, I think by the end of next week, I will upload the audio file.
Dear Fabio, Simone has already given you very good answers and we have communicated via email. For all readers, I want to specify that any noise or "buzz" could be caused by light contact of a mechanical part (for example, a damper wire) near the string, or be part of the sound of the string itself... or even from a lack of hammer voicing. In short, it needs to be examined closely. Let us all keep in mind that variations in temperature and humidity can "temporarily" cause "noises" that could suddenly "appear" and "disappear".
Other more serious causes can depend on the soundboard and the bridge... but it is really not the case for a new piano!!!
we await your response. Make sure you can get to the real cause. It is anyway inappropriate to try to cover up the defect ...perhaps by softening the hammer to make the sound softer....unless it actually depends on a poorly voiced hammer. In that case, it needs to be voiced.
At first he said he didn't hear anything strange, even though my sister noticed it too on the very first scale I played for her; she said THERE IT IS! And she isn't a musician... 😕 After that, he started to hear a certain metallic WOOOOO.
The notes that cause it are D slightly, E a lot, and F slightly.
They are the notes just before the copper-wound strings; he told me that I can probably hear this difference precisely because of this jump, or anyway because at that point the damper rods are shorter to overcome the space limitation since the strings intersect there.
He tuned the piano because it was slightly out of tune to try to hear it better, but he doesn't find anything strange and wouldn't really know what to do to fix this metallic WOOOOO that doesn't last long but remains once the key is pressed and released. 😉
He told me there is a bit of reverb due to the placement and the room, which isn't very large.
To summarize:
- the technician worked on it for about forty minutes, he tuned the piano and used a liquid with a syringe; I didn't quite understand if it was on the hammers or something else, but I arrived home from work when it was already done; it was at my sister's house.
- this is my first piano, I don't want it to be a fixation of mine, but I promise myself to record it perhaps using another instrument other than a cell phone so I can let you hear it.
At first he said he didn't hear anything strange, even though my sister noticed it too at the very first scale I played for her; she said THERE IT IS! And she is not a musician... 😕 Afterwards, he started to hear a certain metallic WOOOOO.
The notes that cause it are D slightly, E a lot, and F slightly.
They are the notes just before the copper-wound strings; he told me that I can probably hear this difference precisely because of this jump, or anyway because at that point the damper rods are shorter to overcome the space limitation since the strings intersect there.
He tuned the piano for me because it was slightly out of tune to try to hear it better, but he doesn't find anything strange and wouldn't know what to do to fix this metallic WOOOOO that doesn't last long but remains once the key is pressed and released. 😉
He told me there is a bit of reverb due to the placement and the room, which is not very large.
To summarize:
- the technician spent about forty minutes on it; he tuned my piano and used a liquid with a syringe, I didn't quite understand if it was on the hammers or something else, but I arrived home from work when it was already done; it was at my sister's house.
- this is my first piano, I don't want it to be a fixation of mine, but I promise myself to record it perhaps using another instrument other than a cell phone so I can let you hear it.
Ciao! 😉
40 minutes between tuning and checking the problem?? A liquid with a syringe on the hammers ????????
I won't comment. Let's wait for Paolo to arrive and see what he tells you...
In the meantime, try to record the noise roughly and we'll see if Paolo can understand from the sound what it is, even though it is very difficult as it could depend on several factors.
I am reading what you tell us. It is a shame that you were not present. Anyway, it is difficult to establish the cause like this. Probably at the intersection of the strings, the iron of a damper touches a string. Nothing else comes to mind. It could be the damper that does not move far enough away from the string. In short..... Perhaps by listening to the recording....... But do you still hear it now? Or is the problem resolved. Second question: did the technician report what that vibration depended on?
It seems to me that the 'zirlo' (chirping sound) being heard depends precisely on the damper. Depending on where the sound damping point is designed, this can combine with the portion of the string that generates an overtone, which is also "odd", meaning dissonant. Now, in some upright pianos, there is simply no space in the string crossing area to make a choice, and sometimes this results in an inevitable non-optimal choice of dampers regarding the notes before the crossing itself. From what I hear, it seems to depend on this. Possible remedy: slight shortening of the felt on those dampers. It could also depend on the fact that the dampers in question do not rest on the string simultaneously across its entire length, anticipating the final damping with a chirp at the moment the key is released. Remedy: Bend the metal very slightly to make the damping parallel to the string.
I hope I am "right"!!!!!! Without seeing the instrument, it is truly difficult.........
Thank you, Paolo, you are always very kind and helpful; I'm just sorry that you aren't near Milan, otherwise you would have become my trusted tuner.... 😉
So summarizing, is the procedure to ALIGN the damper to the strings something I can do myself? Partly because I wouldn't want to call the piano technician from Milan back (I am from Vigevano) for a simple maneuver, especially since he told me that he wouldn't know what to do to eliminate the background buzz....
Does it simply consist of manually rotating the damper to align it, or is there something more? 😕
Of course, it is not easy, assuming it depends on this.
There is a screw on the head of the damper. Take the head of the damper with long tweezers. Then unscrew the small screw and you will see that the head rises and descends along the metal rod. Because the rod is inclined, the head moves left and right. Well, this serves to center it on the strings, if it doesn't dampen all three strings well. It is not easy. Second operation, you must check the parallelism. There, you must act on the rod near the head so that the felt approaches in its verticality simultaneously along its entire length. It is not easy. Try, but with caution.
Ok thanks a million... that's probably it because if I play the keys and try to stop the strings with my finger nearby, the problem is drastically reduced or even eliminated.
But I have to be psychologically prepared to perform the operation... 😉
For now THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😕😉 ;)
I read your message in which you say that your new Yamaha piano makes a strange metallic sound on the E of the middle octave.
I want to clarify that I am not as much of an expert as Pianoexpert ( 😕 ), but it also happened to me to hear a metallic buzz on some strings: it was on a 1903 Bechstein that had just been restored (if you read my introduction in the "introduce myself" section, I talked about this wonderful piano...).
I contacted the restorer who dealt with it; he came to school (the piano is in my school's theater hall!!!) and looked at it again for about fifteen minutes; then he told me that it was normal, a little defect that practically happens initially to all new or just restored pianos, since the string (wrapped around the ankle, I think that's what the pin on which the string is wound and from which it is tuned is called) is new, so for the piano it's a bit like "wearing a new garment", maybe still a bit
loose !! 😉
Anyway, let me know ...
PS: but is it true that the low notes of Yamahas are a bit too... "metallic and stiff"? The piano I used to go to lessons on was a Steinway grand (absolutely wonderful and angelic) and had low tones that were consistent but soft at the same time (perhaps that's why when I played on a Yamaha I had a feeling of "stiff and metallic"). Then, for heaven's sake, there is an abyss between Yamaha and Steinway... (with all due respect to those who have a Yamaha), but Yamahas are excellent too!!!
That the chirping be heard because the ankles are new seems like an absurdity to me, precisely because the ankles, especially if they are new, find their place in the soundboard firmly; in any case, to have an exact and reliable opinion we will have to wait for pianoexpert's intervention, mine are just logical deductions. Certainly some Yamaha models have a good sound, I would even say excellent, but Steinway is another planet. Pianoexpert has a Mod B and it sounds divine! Always a round and singing sound in both the bass and treble registers; in short, Steinway is certainly an unparalleled brand, not only for grands; from what Paolo tells me, even the uprights are beautiful, but I have never had the chance to try one...
