New catalogue of Beethoven's works

I took a quick look at your website's page and it seemed to me that the WoO list has remained unchanged with only the addition of numbers 206 - 228, or are there other changes?

I am thinking of updating my site as well, but I want to be sure of what I am doing.

Obviously, based exclusively on the new WoO catalogue that you put on the site, and on what you wrote, I cannot help but agree with you, Armando.

The lack of certain pieces is striking, starting with the Biamonti 213.

But I would like to add two other observations.

Catalogue revisions are welcome, but they should be carried out in the original spirit. The Kinsky-Halm catalogue was created by dividing it into genres: first orchestral music, then various dances for piano or other ensembles, then military marches, etc. In updating and compiling it, it would have been right to stick to that line, returning the various pieces to their musical niches.

Another task of updates should be to eliminate or add music that, over the years, has been removed as a composition by Beethoven or that, conversely, has been recognized as such.

And - see WoO 12 and 16 - this has not happened, undermining the work done.

Hello everyone

First of all for Terenzio: you can already update starting from my list; I took it from the list of works that Luigi gave me:

206 Konzert (F-Dur) für Oboe und Orchester (Hess 12)

207 Romance cantabile (e-Moll) für Querflöte, Fagott, Klavier und Orchester (Hess 13)

208 Quintett (Es-Dur) für Oboe, drei Hörner und Fagott (Hess 19)

209 Menuett (As-Dur) für zwei Violinen, Viola und Violoncello (Hess 33/88)

210 Allegretto (h-Moll) für zwei Violinen, Viola und Violoncello

211 Andante (C-Dur) für Klavier

212 Anglaise (D-Dur) für Klavier (Hess 61)

213 Vier Bagatellen (Des-Dur, G-Dur, A-Dur, A-Dur) für Klavier

214 Bagatelle (c-Moll) für Klavier (Hess 69)

215 Dreistimmige Fuge (C-Dur) für Klavier

216 Zwei Bagatellen (C-Dur, Es-Dur) für Klavier (Hess 73, 74)

217 Menuett (F-Dur) für Klavier

218 Menuett (C-Dur) für Klavier

219 Walzer (Ländler, Deutscher; c-Moll) für Klavier (Hess 68)

220 Kriegslied für die verbündeten Heere, Lied nach einem Gedicht von L. Z. Werner (Hess 123)

221 Herr Graf, ich komme zu fragen, Kanon (C-Dur) nach einem eigenen Text (Hess 276)

222 Kanon (As-Dur) (Hess 275/328)

223 Tut auf, Kanonisches Gesangsstück (C-Dur) nach einem eigenen Text für zwei Singstimmen

224 Cacatum non est pictum, Kanon (B-Dur) nach einem Text von G. A. Bürger

225 Großen Dank für solche Gnade, Kanon nach einem eigenen Text (Hess 303)

226 Fettlümmel, Bankert haben triumphiert, Kanon (Hess 260)

227 Esel aller Esel, Kanon (F-Dur) nach einem eigenen Text (Hess 277)

228a Ah Tobias, Musikalischer Scherz

228b Tobias, Musikalischer Scherz (Hess 285)

For now this is the list; as soon as I have the incipits I will see what those "Vier Bagatellen (Des-Dur, G-Dur, A-Dur, A-Dur) für Klavier" are

but they will be some klaviestucke from Hess 57 etc...

Then: no changes regarding the other WoO; only updates regarding first editions, manuscripts etc...

I have also updated the Hess catalogue indicating the new WoO number in parentheses.

Appendix: I don't know the modification yet but for example the symphony Hess 298 becomes UNV 1 in the appendix. (UNV 3 is the Biamonti 838, which by the way is not cited!!) ps Unv stands for unvollendete "unfinished"

In short, now I will look at the books, but for now only the WoO are being modified; everything else seems like a wonderful mess like the Volkslieder reorganized in a messy way by Petra Weber-Bockholdt....

True Daniele! Also why scrap Hess? For everyone the oboe concerto is and will remain Hess 12! Moreover, the catalogue was very recently revised by our friend James Green...

Finally, if one puts the WoO on the perilous path of fragments, one enters an inclined plane from which one can no longer rise; "Tut Auf" is a fragment, but regarding Kafka this fits: Kafka page 102, folio 103 versus lines 1, 2 and 3. Sketch for a three-voice canon, which is much more complete...

Anyway, when we have it in our hands there will be studying to do for several months! And then we will ask the illustrious scholars of the BH!

Friendship

Thank you Armando.

I will get to work and fix everything during the week.

Thanks to Armando's precious input, I have finished updating the page of Beethoven's non-numbered works

http://www.flaminioonline.it/Biografie/Beethoven-catalogo-noopus.html

... And I have updated the first of these works, namely the canon (ex Hess 303): http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Opere/Beethoven-Midi-Mp3-Canoni.html#WoO225 "Grossen Dank fur solche Gnade" (Many thanks for such a favor.

Ciao!

Watch out Armando, you made three typos in the text.

canone,(Abbozzo) - space is missing

del quale a sau volta

la musicanon è riportata - here too a space is missing

Thanks Terenzio! you are legendary!

In the end, I'm getting a big head.

Dear Terenzio,

here is the definitive and correct list of works placed in the new catalogue; I hope it can be useful to you! (if they are happy, everyone is happy)

WoO 206 Oboe Concerto (lost) = Hess 12

WoO 207 Romance cantabile = Hess 13

WoO 208 Quintet in E-flat = Hess 19

WoO 209 Minuet in A-flat = Hess 33 and the piano version Hess 88

WoO 210 Allegretto for string quartet in B minor (Pencarrow Quartet) = Gardi 16

WoO 211 Andante in C = Biamonti 52

WoO 212 Anglaise in D = Hess 61

WoO 213 Four bagatelles for piano found in the new Gesamtausgabe VII/6. Uncatalogued. #1 and #4 were issued in an edition by Novello, edited by Barry Cooper, along with the 1822 version of Für Elise.

WoO 214 Allegretto in C minor = Hess 69

WoO 215 Fugue in C = Hess 64

WoO 216 Two bagatelles for piano = Hess 73 in C and Hess 74 in E-flat

WoO 217 Minuet in F = Biamonti 66

WoO 218 Minuet in C = Biamonti 74

WoO 219 Waltz or Laendler in C minor = Hess 68

WoO 220 Kriegslied für die verbündeten Heere (lost) = Hess 123

WoO 221 Canon, Herr Graf = Hess 276

WoO 222 Canon in A-flat = Hess 275

WoO 223 Thut auf = Biamonti 752

WoO 224 Cacatum non est Pictum = Gardi 9

WoO 225 Grossen Dank für solche Gnade = Hess 303

WoO 226 Fettlümerl und Bankert haben triumphirt = Hess 260

WoO 227 Esel aller Esel, musical joke = Hess 277

WoO 228a Musical greeting, Ah, Tobias, found in the new Gesamtausgabe XII/2, previously uncatalogued

WoO 228b Musical greeting, Tobias = Hess 285

Unfinished works:

Unv 1 Symphony in C minor = Hess 298

Unv 2 Sketches for a symphony in C (parts of which were reused for Symphony #1) = Biamonti 73

Unv 3 Tenth Symphony = Biamonti 838

Unv 4 Sketches for a BACH Overture = Biamonti 832

Unv 5 Concertante in D

Unv 6 Piano Concerto #6 in D = Hess 15

Unv 7 String Quintet movement in D minor = Hess 40

Unv 8 Duo for Violin and Cello in E-flat

Unv 9 Allegretto in E-flat for Piano Trio = Hess 48

Unv 10 Piano Trio in F minor = Biamonti 637

Unv 11 Violin Sonata in A = Hess 46

Unv 12 Fantasia/Piano Sonata in D = Biamonti 213

Unv 13 Piano Sonata in E-flat found at Fischhof 42v, uncatalogued

Unv 14 Variations for Piano in A found at Fischhof 25v through 26v, uncatalogued

Unv 15 Opera, Vestas Feuer = Hess 115

Unv 16 Opera, Macbeth = Biamonti 454

Unv 17 Cantata, Europens Befreiungsstunde = Hess 317

Unv 18 Östreich über alles, Song for Chorus and Orchestra. Uncatalogued

Unv 19 Cantata for voice and piano in B-flat, found in Fischhof f.1v, Kafka f.100r and a.66 f.1r. Uncatalogued

Unv 20 Lamentations of Jeremaiah

Unv 21 Song, Traute Henriette = Hess 151

Unv 22 Song, Rastlose Liebe = Hess 149

Unv 23 Song, Heidenröslein = Hess 150

And regarding the works defined as "UNV" which stands for "Unvollendet"

Graziano Denini has edited a critical edition of the Unv 8 Duet for violin (flute) and cello in Eb that you can listen to here as a preview, as these pieces have not yet been added to the website.

http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Beethoven-Mp3/Kafka/Kafka_Pagina129_DuettoPerViolinoEVcello.mp3

http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Beethoven-Mp3/Kafka/Kafka_Pagina129_DuettoPerFlautoEVcello.mp3

I have started updating the Beethoven pages on my site, but I need some clarifications:

Is the Unv numbering a new category being added to the others? (Op., WoO, Anhag)

Does the Anhag list remain unchanged?

WoO 210 and 224 refer to Gardi. I have gathered that it is a catalogue, but I found very vague information online. I would like to know more.

Hello dear Terenzio! So:

The catalogue referred to as "Gardi" is actually an unofficial catalogue that stemmed from unheardbeethoven's desire to catalogue works not included in the old K-H. In reality, in my opinion, having started collaborating closely with BH with Mark Zimmer, James Green and especially with Willem Holsbergen, many works (as you have seen) have already moved into the new catalogue. So we can quite comfortably forget about Gardi, just as we did with the old Grove or Bruers catalogues.

Anhang (in this case I have left the small section of these 18 works unchanged) Anhang is nothing more than an "appendix" to which I am very attached, as it contains many interesting things although not Beethovenian. For now let's leave it; also because many CDs still report the old designation ANH.

Unv yes, it is effectively another list of works. It has nothing very new about it; on the contrary, I am convinced they have embarked on a very perilous path. Anyway. All the UNV (except two or three, I believe) already have a Biamonti or Hess number.

In any case, I will also include this list, emptying part of my Onhe Opus.

(I hope that theirs is a "dynamic" list.... considering the sketchbooks, I calculate there are at least 5,550 "unv"... MAH!)

I hope I have been useful to you! if you have any doubts, write to me again.

See you soon,

A-------------------------------------

Thank you.

In the coming days I will fix my site.

Thank you Armando for your extremely precious updates.

And thank you Terenzio for your website: I love the list of works in chronological order. Why don't you give it to Armando? To be added to those he already has on his site.

It would be sufficient for Armando to copy/paste and then format it according to the style of his website.

Armando, think about it!

Wouldn't a list in chronological order be a perfect complement to those you have already published?

It's an old obsession of mine, do you remember my website?

I have updated the Beethoven catalogue according to Armando's latest advice.

The unfinished compositions are at the bottom of the WoO page

http://www.flaminioonline.it/Biografie/Beethoven-catalogo-noopus.html#a

Additionally, I have also included the unfinished works in the chronological catalogue

Dear Massimo,

of course I remember your wonderful website! Imagine having to transfer about 5500 to 6000 works between published works and published fragments/sketches into a chronological list……… You want to make me climb Mount Helicon! (But we will do that too, count on it!)

In the meantime, I have also organized the UNV catalogue, which you can find here:

I have also inserted the music and description of a beautiful Concerto in C major, now named with UNV catalogue number 5, which you can find here: http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Opere/Beethoven-Midi-Mp3-Concerti.html#UNV05

Finally, you will find two Lieder, Hess 150 (UNV 23) - Sketches for a song by Goethe: Heidenröslein (Wild Rose) and Hess 149 (UNV 22) - Rastlose Liebe, sketch of a song for voice and piano, now named with catalogue numbers UNV 22 and 23, which are actually just the old Hess 149 and 150 that were missing from the site:

http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Opere/Beethoven-Midi-Mp3-Lieder-Canti-Hess.html#Hess149

http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Opere/Beethoven-Midi-Mp3-Lieder-Canti-Hess.html#Hess150

With friendship and esteem, yours Armando