Solfeggio

12/8 always has one beat to strike! You always have only one beat, the others are upbeats more or less strong

antares86 wrote:

12/8 always has one on the beat! You always have one and only one beat, the others are upbeats more or less strong

hi, I don't understand, I have always solfeggioed it as 2 on the beat and 2 on the upbeat 1,2,3-4,5,6 beat (ternary subdivision) 1,2,3-4,5,6 upbeat, same thing.

the relative simple time of 12/8 is 4/4 (which is solfeggioed as 2 on the beat and 2 on the upbeat, binary subdivision)

No, you answered yourself... 4/4 is the relative simple meter of 12/8. Like 12/8, 4/4 also has one beat on the downbeat and three on the upbeat with different accents. In particular, you have a strong accent on the downbeat of the first beat, a weak accent on the upbeat of the second beat, a strong accent on the upbeat of the third beat, and a weak accent on the fourth beat.

Fox, for the record, both in 4/4 and 12/8, you don't have two downbeats followed by two upbeats; you have one downbeat, one upbeat, a slightly accented third upbeat, and a fourth upbeat

how strange I don't understand, I have always solfeggio 4/4 with two movements on the beat and two movements on the offbeat, this is how we do it in class

4/4

1 down

2 left

3 right

4 up

Watch the conductors, you can't go wrong

For 6/8, the issue is different. There are two schools: the Italian-French one and the German one. The German one is much more pragmatic and clear.

But anyway, I was practicing all of it in division and what's done is done ahahah

Hi and thanks for all the answers, but I still don't understand.

Maybe the problem is in the movements, in the sense that I solfeggio 4/4 in 4 movements where for the first two I tap on the table and for the other two I tap on my chest.

I know that 4/4 has the first accent strong, the second weak, the third mezzo-forte and the fourth weak, and so it begins again.

I understand exactly how a 4/4 measure is perceived thanks to the accents.

If, as you say, 4/4 has one accent on the downbeat (battere) and three on the upbeat (levare), what do you mean by downbeat and upbeat? I mean two movements on the downbeat on the table and two movements on the upbeat on my chest; maybe the problem is in the movements... I don't know..

Look at the conductors. One beats the second time on the left, the third on the right, the fourth at the top and we start again. The accents you described are correct.

zenigata wrote:

Look at the conductors. One beat on the second beat to the left, the third to the right, the fourth at the top and you start again. The accents you described are correct.

thanks, so that explains 1 movement on the downbeat and 3 on the upbeat in 4/4 time, but in my school we divide the hand movements differently, meaning two downward movements hitting the table (which we call on the downbeat) and two horizontal movements towards the chest (which we call on the upbeat), do you understand how we do it? You divide the 4/4 into one movement on the downbeat and three on the upbeat because on the downbeat there is always and only the strong accent that determines the first accent of the measure and therefore determines the 4/4 meter

Never heard of such a thing... besides not understanding the sense of it

Thanks everyone, but how do I recognize a 4/8 from a 4/4?

From the score

The gesture is not enough, it's like asking how I can distinguish 3/4 from 3/2...by looking at a conductor. Surely the sonic context can help, but in a solfeggio...

Marzapane wrote:

From the score

The gesture is not enough; it's like saying how can I distinguish 3/4 from 3/2... by looking at a conductor. Surely the sonic context can help, but in a sight-reading exercise...

hi

but then why does 4/8 exist? couldn't it just be done in 4/4? after all, there are a lot of measures in 4/4 made up of 8 eighth notes (4 per beat)

4/8 is sight-read exactly like 4/4, right? as you say, one movement on the beat and three on the upbeat?

I am timidly inserting myself

Fox wrote:

but then why does 4/8 exist? couldn't it be done only in 4/4?

This observation seems interesting to me, but the answer is very complex and linked to the evolution of metric notation

Following your reasoning, we could almost say that mensural notation might suffice ... let's say from Philippe de Vitry? (ARS NOVA treatise)

Frank wrote:

I timidly interject

A this observation seems interesting to me, but the answer is very complex and linked to the evolution of metric indication

Following your reasoning we could almost say that mensural notation might suffice ... let's say from Philippe de Vitry? (ARS NOVA treatise)

Hi thanks.

Yes, because aren't the accents different?

is it true that 4/8 is usually a faster tempo compared to 4/4? .. I am confused

antares86 wrote:

Never heard of such a thing... besides not understanding the sense of it

Hi

In the end, I could even do just a single movement that repeats with the hand, towards the sky or towards the right it doesn't matter, the important thing is to nail the rhythm and therefore respect the values and their distribution in time, even without all those movements, I believe..

zenigata wrote:

Look at the conductors. One beats the second time on the left, the third on the right, the fourth at the top and you start again. The accents you described are correct.

Hi, sorry, would you have a video example of solfeggio in this way?

thanks