2009 Finale Wrong Irregular Groups At End Of Measure

First of all, welcome.

I confirm that in all the versions I have used up to 2010, I had the same problem; soon I will try 2012 ... let's hope it goes better.

Your procedure is correct, I mean, pretending that the program isn't bugged.

This is what I do: first I insert the irregular group, then I fill the measure with the missing notes... even if they come earlier. If the metric scheme coincides, I copy and paste copiously, and I even made a model music file to use for copying and pasting the most recurring rhythmic figures... then you just have to adapt the note pitches.

I know it's a pain; there are also key combinations to insert irregular groups, but I have never tried them.

Oracolo wrote:

there are also key combinations to insert irregular groups, but I have never tried them.

Select a note --> Alt + 9

If you insert a triplet at the end of a measure, using the appropriate simple insertion button … no problem. For custom ones, it actually takes some work; I'm doing a few tests even based on what DiesIrae suggested

Hi Oracle, do you mean that first you write the quintuplet or other irregular group at the beginning of the measure so that it inserts it without distorting it, then you add the notes that must precede it, so as to make it slide forward bit by bit until its correct position at the end of the measure, and when it arrives there, Finale no longer messes it up? That would be a brilliant trick. (I must thank you for the immediate feedback and implicitly for the welcome!)

I tried this Oracolo system, but after the first note I try to insert before the group, it starts eating the subsequent ones by replacing them with the new ones I input, absorbing them. Is it possible that after years no one has reported this to the developers?

I don't have problems... if your copy were original, it would be enough to contact support

Try attaching a sample measure so that I can try with my procedure....

Welcome.

Exit wrote:

Try attaching a sample measure so that I can try with my procedure....

I am also curious, in the past I had some similar problems... let us know if the type of line is that of the piano roll or the orchestral one, if so, does it happen to you with all instruments and in the same way with all channels?

Corrado wrote:

Hi Oracle, do you mean that first you write the quintuplet or other irregular group at the beginning of the measure so that it inserts it without distorting it, then you add the notes that must precede it, so as to make it slide forward gradually until its correct position at the end of the measure and when it arrives there Finale doesn't mess it up anymore? That would be a brilliant trick. (I must thank you for the immediate feedback and implicitly for the welcome!)

Another trick is to insert an irregular group with one extra note, let me explain.

I need to create a quintuplet of sixteenth notes in the last quarter of a 4/4 measure.

I insert the first sixteenth note, tools menu -> irregular group -> click on the note, I choose 6 (instead of 5) sixteenths in 2 eighths ---> Choose the first 5 sixteenths (it will give you trouble for the last of the 6).

At this point, you modify the irregular group by changing it to 5 sixteenths in 2 eighths; it will put some random rests across the measure boundary, cut and paste the measure and everything normalizes (the useless rests disappear) or eventually, I don't remember if with Finale 2009 it still exists, tools - mass - redistribute music.

I tried with 2010 and it works

@ Oracolo I'll try this one too, thanks Oracolo you are a wellspring of suggestions (ehm... yes, I have a copied version )

@Frank Yes Frank it happens to me with every channel or instrument, I suspect that something in the sequencer part of Finale conflicts with the written notation program functions. Every now and then it has strange behaviors, like when maybe you want to put an expression mark on a certain instrument in an orchestral score and it inexorably pastes it into the first staff at the top, whatever the instrument is, even if you had clicked on a staff in the middle of the page.

I continue to thank you all for the collaboration!

Objectively there is a problem, I simply increased the measure by one unit... continuing with the Oracle example, if I am in 4/4 I change the measure to 5/4, I deal with my own irregular groupings (not actually being at the end of the measure, because I have an extra quarter) and then I return the measure to 4/4

It takes 2 clicks and 1/2 second to do it all

True Dies Irae...great

I also did some tests on Finale 2012... it's the same problem.

I am absolutely sure that at one point, something I remember well, this no longer happened, and it was certainly when I was using the English version (I think 2010).

I have been using the Italian ones for a while now, and both 2010 and 2012 have the same problem. Corrado, can you confirm if you use the Italian one... or is yours in English?

Mine is in Italian Frank, I confirm. The suggestion from Diesirae is also great! I'll try it immediately (to be clear, I am helping a friend put one of his pieces on paper and he has a writing style like Lachenmann, so there are bound to be some problems. I resumed musical activity two years ago after twenty years of forced standby due to other work activities that literally swallowed me up, but now I have returned to my old love (compatible with work and family) and am therefore practicing with Finale, for which I also took an Afam exam, but whose study program essentially stopped at traditional notation, so it was of little use to me as a contemporary composer.

I must say that from memory I remember catching a glimpse many years ago of a score created with one of the very first versions of Finale for Ricordi, by none other than Adriano Guarnieri, who has a writing style that is not at all messy! And back then, it seemed like a surprising graphic version to me. I never would have thought that in 2012 I would find myself struggling with these aspects of rigidity in Finale, unless everything simply depends on my still superficial knowledge of its potential.

Because for example, why is it not possible to draw new symbols even in the function to change noteheads? In this piece for four accordions, I would need to create noteheads different from the few available in the program's library. Just as in the "Expression" function we can literally draw new symbols, why don't they make it possible in that "Articulation" one too? In this one you can access the Maestro library, or Maestro Percussion, etc. (but only one or the other alternatively), but it would also be convenient here to be able to edit entirely new symbols from scratch.

I had already reported these two open source software programs in the past, which are very powerful (more aimed at algorithmic composition... however...):

http://www.flexatone.net/athena.html

http://www.zogotounga.net/GM/eGM0.html

The second one unfortunately has a very rudimentary graphic interface, and that is why it is quite inconvenient to handle. Both are, in any case, very, very difficult both to learn and to use.

Even if not used "directly" for composing, they are a very interesting source of rhythmic, timbral, and formal experimentation that can indirectly affect creativity, and therefore also an "artisanal" approach to writing.

Besides, Finale was created for traditional notation... these are the types of programs that suit your needs

There are also the IRCAM programs (Open Music, AudioSculpt, etc.) which, at a glance, can do what these programs do and, it seems to me from a first look ... but with a more immediate interface

Among others, those of IRCAM are typically also of interest to conservatories ...

.

I am dusting off this topic for those interested, perhaps also to talk about the computer tools used to produce this music

www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/1156-musica-sintetica

However, the programs I reported are open source, it seems to me, unlike those from Ircam. This could have important implications. They are essentially command-line based

(this is why they have a complicated interface); I suggest you take a look at the manuals ...

In reality, there are many algorithmic programs, for decades ....