I am taking inspiration from a question about the septichord.
In your opinion, is there any utility in writing the polyphonic exercises of the composition course (I am referring to Imitated and Fugato Bass and the Fugue of the old order) in the 4 ancient clefs (including the bass clef)?
If the answer were yes, for what reason?
My opinion is that it is rather useless (and sometimes even harmful for examination purposes). If the reason is the range of the voices, I believe that someone at the IV and even more so at the VII knows what the range of the 4 is. Furthermore, tell me clearly if you are teachers: do you read at the same speed in the 4 clefs compared to choral-style writing (sol, sol, sol octavated, bass)?
I don't understand very much, but to understand better, what do you mean by antique keys?
Z
Zazza
Member
Reply 5 by Zazza
Posts
250
I found it useful for score reading, does anyone remember the sight-reading test of pieces written in Soprano, Alto, Tenor, and Bass clef (@Aspirante).
I still remember that Rigacci (or Brunelli, whatever it was)
I think it still has its usefulness regarding the study of ancient polyphony (Motet, Madrigal, Double choir...) as training for reading in original clefs. It mainly concerns those who study choral music, so: it is a fundamental tool for approaching period sources. Regarding Imitation Bass and Fugue, I also believe that it doesn't make much sense.
Aside from quoting Red, since vocal fugue in the strict sense is no longer studied, a suitable alternative for the fugue (in my opinion, obviously) can be to use the clefs of the string quartet. For example, one of the reference ensembles is the baroque orchestra, where one must obviously master the staff dedicated to the viola.
I always tend to have fugues written in relation to the instrumentation; if someone chooses the organ, the staves must also respect the instrumentation in the writing... therefore double staff + one for the pedals. It is the most functional thing today.
The didactic approach, which I believe is even modern, is fugue towards orchestration... enough with "abstractions" that are ends in themselves...
O
Oracolo
Member
Reply 8 by Oracolo
Posts
317
Frank wrote:
since vocal fugue in the strict sense is no longer studied anymore
But isn't the fugue studied in the seventh [year] vocal?
But isn't the fugue studied in the seventh [year/level] vocal?
Of course, when I see a text written down... the duty will be to use the vocal ensemble ... since there hasn't been a text for years (I was alluding to the "strict sense"), for me it remains instrumental. Have you ever heard (or seen) vocal music without text?
Another reason came to mind, besides those mentioned so far, for not definitively relegating ancient clefs to the attic: sitting at the piano and reading a Mass by Palestrina in ancient clefs is a mental gymnastics exercise worthy of a sudoku. An exercise a bit end in itself, but useful as training... and also exciting, if one wishes!
I distinguish the reading of ancient clefs, which is commonly practiced both as a school exercise and as a musical activity, from the forced obligation of copying for ministerial exams. Because that is how it is. I suggest to my students to write on 6 staves: the 4 canonical ones with ancient clefs and 2 for piano reduction for reading (and especially for correction). I haven't read any opinions regarding the second part: is the reading speed (and in the case of a correction exam) the same in the 4 ancient clefs or in the 4 modern ones? The good Prof. Daniele Bertotto I believe was one of the few capable of it.
O
Oracolo
Member
Reply 12 by Oracolo
Posts
317
Zedef wrote:
I haven't read any opinions regarding the second part: the reading speed (and in case of a correction exam)
My teacher used to correct the fugue at the desk ... he never played it and always nitpicked everything
Premised that I maintain my opinion: use the clefs of the staff to which the passage is directed (there are conservatories following this line, see Como)
Zedef wrote:
la reading speed (and in case of a correction exam) is the same in the 4 ancient clefs or in the 4 modern ones?
Surely reading on 2 staves instead of 4 is an easier way
We are talking about programs from 1917, I believe, regarding the old system.
Considering the spread of means of communication in 1917 in Italy, if you didn't know how to use transport and the ancient keys, you couldn't "access" the litter of polyphony nor even reduce symphonies for the piano.
Today we are in the world of media, so let everyone draw their own conclusions...
E
Elfo
Member
Reply 15 by Elfo
Posts
25
cristiank83 wrote:
My thought is in line with that of my teacher...
We are talking about programs from 1917, I believe, regarding the old system.
Considering the spread of means of communication in 1917 in Italy, if you didn't know how to use transport and the ancient keys, you couldn't "access" the litter of polyphony nor even reduce symphonies for the piano.
Today we are in the world of media, so everyone can draw their own conclusions...
...and if someone needs ... what do they do? Transpose everything to the final key and transpose?
