bach busoni bwv 645

Dear Nancy, I'm not trying to drone on with theories about the interpretation of this piece; some play it a little bit faster, but if you feel it is yours this way, I don't see why you should change the tempo. I can tell you that listening to it made me feel a profound emotion, and that is enough for me. Ultimately, that is the heart of the matter: if you make me feel something, then you have played well; otherwise, try again. You can tell the piano is in an intimate setting, the sound is very beautiful and real, it feels like being there just a few steps away from you playing.

Thank you.

when I am told that I make people experience emotions, I am happy....thank you Giovanni!!!!

congratulations Nancy!

i used to play it too (on the organ). It always made me break out in a cold sweat: reaching the end without wrong notes was already a personal success.

i would play it faster. Why should it result in being less spiritual?... There is not only the spirituality of motionless contemplation, but also that of a joyful dance of the soul.

And let it be a dance then! . . .

i feel it brisk and dancing: that wonderful arabesque in the right hand that Sebastian Bach wove around the chorale . . . .

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Luca, well if you suggest Koopman to me I'll be over the moon hahaha

LucaCavaliere wrote:

i feel it as sprightly and dancing: that wonderful arabesque in the right hand that Sebastian Bach has woven around the chorale . . . .

Indeed your words are very illuminating.... "sprightly and dancing".... I will try to rethink it! By concentrating heavily on the basses and trying to render them as if they were to be played on an organ pedalboard, I was trying to give them a certain depth from which the detachment of a more "serious" tempo [comes]. Thank you!

Can I try again?

But of course, Nancy's first take isn't necessarily good

For now I would say... well done Nancy because there is a beautiful spirit in what you play, especially one feels the respect you have for Bach's music, but perhaps that is exactly what is blocking you a little. Mine are not judgments, let that be clear, but... just sensations. I would merge more with the piece. The piece proposed by Luca is beautiful, but watch out!! The organ is not the piano and we are talking about two diametrically opposed languages. Dancing and sprightly, okay, but on the piano, I would rethink it differently.

I feel it, for example, as separate steps in your execution, whereas they should be ramps of stairs with their landings. In Luca's proposal, I would listen more to the phrases made by the choir and worked on large arcs of phrasing that start, realize, and conclude, but the organ brings them out because it sounds that way due to its long sounds. The bass you play, for example (very well calibrated), would require the greatest possible legato, and also the dynamics—rather than arriving suddenly, they should be more calibrated; I mean creating more dynamics by lowering the weight more on the steps where you already play piano... (in the sense of playing even more softly while crescendoing in a calibrated way). It is also felt that the piano is not helping you (in fact, certain sounds almost pushed to try to make some notes sing seem to be due to the fact that the instrument does not respond... even out of tune? Ha ha). If I find it online, I'll send you something to make you understand what I mean, even if the piece has a different spirit from this.

You have taken on quite a headache... the conflict in this piece between its expressive, cantabile character and its jubilation is not easy at all. In my opinion, you will have to make an expressive choice, but clearly giving precedence to one of the two factors; at least on the piano, in order to give the listener a direction and a secure aesthetic sense upon which to base their listening; in short, so as not to disorient them.

Many times, to clarify for myself how to play, for example, a Mozart adagio, I would listen to another adagio; I assure you it can help.

In conclusion, I agree with Gianni: also for me, beautiful spirit and 80% of the work is done.

Thank you for playing for us.

I'm running to look for the piece.

Found it! After all, the basses are nothing more than the organ pedalboard and must sound pianissimo but legato. It's beautiful how the singing comes out with a great timbral distance between the bass and the soprano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnNUbeR_SjQ

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you understood my "disorientation" perfectly.... at the moment I have a Seiler that has a lot of character with slightly aggressive attacks (it must be properly prepared; I have decided on a specific tuning for the next tuning session). when, for example, I play it on the Fürstenberg (an upright, among other things), I have fewer timbre problems. the sound is more malleable and sweet and adapts more to chorales.

Giovanni is right that if the piece is heard with a staccato that is even different from the one most commonly used by everyone, it isn't a problem.... but I still don't feel it is completely mine from an interpretative point of view. and I thank you because you are all giving me great help with excellent insights

in my opinion, it is a very particular piece in which the difficulty of the transcription is considerable. on the organ (as Fabio rightly says), many things are more natural. choices must be made to make it playable on the piano.

in the BWV 645 that you posted (with a good piano... well-prepared), everything is clearer in terms of dynamics and timbre. the warm and deep sonority of the basses, and the chorale that emerges with clarity but also great sweetness.... meditative.

along these lines could be the interpretation given by Solomon. beautiful and moving... coherent throughout

but it becomes something else compared to the chorale of the original cantata, which is more "a joyful dance of the soul" "brisk and dancing".

on the piano, I would like to find the right way to give it cantability and jubilation... I will tell you more when I get my hands back on it tomorrow because I would like to try doing something different specifically with the basses... if I continue to think of them as the deep organ basses must be, they have to be slower and more cadenced. instead, by lightening them and linking them with more work on the soprano to create volume and continuity, I should (perhaps) succeed in recreating a fuller sonority with a crescendo dynamic that comes closer to the fullness of the organ.

it is not easy to explain and I understand that reading mine it will seem like an absurd obsession... but I want to try!

what you say about the pianissimo and the dynamics is real and I also feel it as a major limitation, but it seems partly to be a problem with the room's acoustics, which is limited in size compared to the pf, and partly a problem in the preparation of the hammer action... at the moment it is a piano with a "very modern" sound. Consider that I have microphones and preamplifiers of high quality, but unfortunately, despite the enormous effort Simone has made to help me fix the matter, miracles cannot be expected (considering also the distance).... on the contrary, he has already corrected an infinity of things!!!

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No no Nancy, not at all.. you have done a great job. I believe that by putting together all the ideas you will arrive at the most "luminous" solution, so to speak. In my opinion, you know very well what is still missing and you won't have any problems illuminating it. Think of it in "becoming," as the joy of having to do it. Ultimately, I believe this music wants to convey an intimate condition of the human soul after encountering the protection and consolation of faith. A walk in spring with a clear sky saying "thank you Lord for all this," that's how I see it.

Bach is still Bach. Why so difficult? Because this piece is nothing more than a smile, complete with tears in the eyes.

Very difficult to find.

Your performance is a success anyway, since I am already reading it... found online.

I listened to Solomon and I would say that, aside from the rather poor audio recording, his seems like an "imitation" version of the organ, and I would even say remarkable from this point of view, since the bass sounds exactly like a pedalboard coming to life from the central nave of a cathedral; however, as you say, it loses that character of jubilation and the joyful dance of the soul and we return to the discussion... what to choose? If you succeed in your intention, something truly remarkable will emerge. Then at a certain point, he brings out the middle voice (I don't know if it's tenor, I'm going to go look at it closely now) silencing the others which are almost very far away.

For now, I'll read it over and then I'll see if anything else comes to mind... incredible nonetheless.

nancy wrote:

I would like to try doing something different specifically with the basses... if I continue to think of them as the deep organ basses must be, they necessarily have to be slower and more rhythmic.

Why "necessarily slower and more rhythmic"?

Slowness (and seriousness... I seem to sense) is not a prerogative of the organ pedalboard

Anyway, compliments on all your work of reflection and interpretation.

LucaCavaliere wrote:

Why "necessarily slower and more rhythmic"?

Slowness (and seriousness... I dare say) is not a prerogative of the organ pedalboard

Anyway, compliments on all your work of reflection and interpretation.

you are right ....but who knows why if I think of the pedalboard I think of it reductively with deep and slow basses. instead they can also be merely hinted at and have another effect.

Dear Nancy, I am only now listening to your delightful recording. And I have read "some" comments here and there, but not too many. I offer you many compliments and, if it is not too much, I will tell you my thoughts. Let's start from the fact that you are interpreting a Bach-Busoni. And I believe that one cannot, when interpreting Busoni, remain devotedly tied to respecting Bach's spirituality. The pedaling and the numerous solutions that He, Busoni, proposes in Bach's music and more... inevitably move us away from the Bach we have in our heads and... in our hearts. If, in my opinion, we want to find solutions that "chain" us less compared to this writing, that of Busoni, then I believe we should not fear a slightly faster tempo. Fabio's example regarding the steps fits well. In a slower tempo, we tend to find more appoggiaturas and therefore more accents. That is, the accentuation becomes "fragmented" and fragments the musical discourse. I don't remember if the time signature is in 4, it seems to me. So trying to play it in 2, with the same metronome, results in something miraculously faster and more fluid. The concept is reversible: a slightly faster tempo helps us decrease the accents. I believe I am saying things that are well known to you, naturally. Also, the "Bachian touch" that they have so much instilled in us, in my opinion, does not apply here. A melody almost thought out and barely played "on the surface" and sustained by the sweet, almost organ-like octaves, very legato. Beneath this solemn whisper, the entry of the chorale theme, which you already highlight well, will stand out like a surprise. I am not saying "correct" things, but things that I "feel." This does not change the fact that you have gifted us a beautiful recording of a piece that is not easy at all, at least for me.

Thank you again

Regards Paolo

P.S.

I believe I have already mentioned in other posts that, in the past, I participated in the recording of Chopin's preludes played by Busoni using the Duo-Art roll system. The record that won the Grand Prix du Disque gave me great experience. Busoni, even as a pianist, needed to find new solutions and new readings. Some changed notes were even justified, certainly not (after further investigation) due to perforation errors. Also the very particular pedal work.

hi Paolo! it's an honor to be listened to by you! the advice you give me is extremely useful and what you say about the piece is very true.

today I tried it after rethinking it in these terms and it was great....

it's so true, just bringing it into 2 [time signature] was enough to settle it. the right break makes it flow naturally and finally it has taken an aesthetic direction........ "jubilee"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the delicate bass on the tip of the escapement creates that "solemn whisper" which is fantastic and creates continuity throughout the piece.

now all that's left for me to do is wait for a moment of silence in the house (that is, when the children are at nursery school) to re-record it, hoping that the result I heard while playing is just as much for you who will listen to the recording!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to everyone

Well! Congratulations! I am glad that what I "felt" reached you, whether it was right or wrong; the important thing is that you feel the atmosphere that the piece evokes. I believe everything else follows as a consequence. We look forward to the recording. Don't worry about the "silence"......even the "solemn whisper" of the children enhances the atmosphere of a homemade "live"!!!!!!!

...."solemn whisper" because you don't know my three "gremlins"... I would call it bluntly "thunderous noise"

l've recorded it.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwxMxiEhTxdcY3l3UVIzSWZDaU0

listening to the recording, I realize that it still needs to mature because in some parts it tends to slip away from me as if I were afraid of missing the train, and the bass often becomes too present. Live they are softer. but I should be on the right track with my studies..
the sound compared to the other file is not processed (except for a minimum of reverb) and therefore sounds less balanced....

Very!!!! much better while I write I listen to it for the second time (and hum along) there is a festive air in this new version, beautiful, well done Nancy!

really?!?!? thankssss....but I think I turned a few too many reverb knobs....I even have 5 knobs and they all seemed so fun to turn!!!!!!!!!!!