Bach: Two-Part Inventions and Sinfonias. Which edition?

The Henle edition has finally been released, which seems good to me.... this as far as Italy is concerned. Perhaps they have already been available in Belgium for some time.

Apart from Henle, Peters is also good; in small print, the latter includes embellishments added by Bach's sons; I don't know what use you will make of them, but for a philological performance, it is better not to take them into consideration.

If you are not followed by a teacher, perhaps it is worth considering some editions edited by a reviewer; not that they are better than Henle, but if you really have no idea how to finger... at least you will have precise indications.

Follow Lestofante's advice.

I often play these inventions/symphonies studied from the Ricordi edition, not the one edited by Mugellini, which is now outdated,

but the revision based on the autographs edited by Carlo Pestalozza. (husband of Luciana Abbado, sister of Claudio...)

Lestofante wrote:

If you are not followed by a teacher, perhaps it is worth considering some editions edited by a reviewer; not that they are better than Henle, but if you really have no idea how to finger... at least you will have precise indications.

Are the Henle Inventions not fingered?

I have the Well-Tempered Clavier, and also the Symphonies, and there the fingerings are present.

RedScharlach wrote:

Are Henle's Inventions not fingered?

I have the Well-Tempered Clavier, and also the Sinfonias, and there the fingerings are present.

There are only those indicated by Bach, which assume that a player uses an ancient fingering technique (for example, without using thumb under) that works well on harpsichord or organ-style keyboards (e.g., the piano has wider keys). Furthermore, without a deep knowledge of Baroque performance practice, how can phrasing be indicated? ... which Bach obviously did not indicate, precisely because the practice existed.

If a student is at the beginning and moreover is not being supervised... rather something than nothing, better rather. Especially since there are editions edited by distinguished musicians.

That's all

Thank you very much to everyone!

In fact, I have the Notebook for Anna Magdalena and Little Preludes and Fughettes by Henle and I punctually struggle a bit with the fingering... even though I am followed by a teacher... so it will be better for me to orient myself towards Pestalozza... now I just have to find it online ;-)

zxxz

zxxz wrote:

punctually I struggle a bit
with fingering... even though I am followed by a teacher...

However, if you have a teacher who can direct your efforts, it will be an effort rewarded. It would be different to struggle and learn useless things or even worse, wrong ones; knowing how to finger and learning an execution practice such as the Baroque one... is extremely important.

And it is only a choice; revised editions in instances where philological aspects were not very emphasized lead to noting various cancellations in the score... in short, it is a choice, but one to be made with full awareness and perhaps in agreement with your teacher's didactic line, who will then have to guide you on this path.

Any urtext edition. I hate revised ones! I recommend Henle.

Ok to the hatred towards revisions, but it must be said that if a standard player knows nothing about them and gets an Urtext, they will revise it themselves anyway, in their own bedroom...

A pianist must be able to "revise" the music by themselves. In conservatories, they "should" also teach this.

I agree, but if the person who opened this thread said they are studying alone....

I understand Micamahler's observation, but through libraries one can easily obtain the most suitable texts (among others, I have already pointed them out countless times) to understand performance practice... I would do it also for culture. In general, if someone assumes they can learn to play the piano by themselves, let alone adopt 3 or 4 treatises on performance practice

In my opinion, the answer often lies in the question: if you are self-taught... you cannot limit your field of research to "just pressing the keys," but, even more so if one is alone, it is necessary to inform oneself about what needs to be done in musical terms.

what you are saying is also true, at the same time I find it really difficult to be able to do everything alone, at least at the beginning. Polyphony already makes the matter concerning. But it goes without saying that if you start on the right foot, then you naturally don't have to backtrack to "re-learn" something. I don't know, I remain a bit skeptical anyway

I compare a revised edition to a "treatise" on a certain subject. For example, an editor X "deals with" the subject regarding the performance practice of Bach's symphonies. In my opinion, revisions are excellent for deepening knowledge and improving; the reference score, however, should be an unrevised edition. Then it also depends on the editor. For example, I have an Arrau revision of Beethoven's sonatas, very faithful to the urtext, where the small adjustments added by the editor are marked in parentheses; and anyway, I disagree with some things, even while recognizing Arrau's greatness. I disagree not because he is wrong per se, but because I would do things differently: hence the necessity of the urtext. Then there are the Ricordi editions which, in my opinion, should not be considered scores for studying, but rather in-depth treatises: they shouldn't even be used for performing. Careful, I am not belittling them; on the contrary, I am giving them their proper "purpose". Then it is a personal matter: I have always been against every form of pedagogy, even regarding how mathematics is taught in school; let alone if I can approach revised editions.

I agree with FrancescoChopin90 but with a pinch more diplomacy, that is, without being extreme.

A pianist's work is not just aimed at performance; in fact, that is the last of things. A musician's work requires an accurate study of the score, which can only happen through a detailed analysis of the piece as it was provided by the composer. Every additional indication, even if it comes from the experience of great pianists or editors, is a personal consideration determined by their experience, which in some cases is anything but negligible. It is also true, however, that some interpretations are outdated. Relying on a revised score seems to me like a shortcut for those who do not want to do the dirty work and just want to play as a hobby. To prepare a piece at a high level, I cannot see any alternative path other than Urtext editions with detailed analysis of the composer's indications.

I consider both Henle and Peters to be excellent editions. Especially in Bach, regarding embellishments, there is a table drawn up by Bach himself in the Clavier-Büchlein vor Wilhelm Friedemann Bach, for his firstborn; furthermore, this refers to examples and therefore should not be taken as absolute!

I am attaching it in case it might be useful to someone...