Bahrami's "Bach" ... All the Infidel

I N D E C E N T

A butcher

Oh well, memory lapses happen ...the problem is everything else that he thinks he did right...

P.S. what did he do with the Goldbergs? Did he attach them in A-flat? I'm afraid to look

Chopin wrote:

Oh well, memory lapses happen... the problem is everything else that [he/she] thinks was done correctly...

Well, anyway...

I always respond only in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

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Let's retrain our ears

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3pOHveFGg&t=69m53s

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Marta23 wrote:

Rifacciamoci le orecchie

Is it just me, or is this way of playing very useless, completely devoid of phrasing: the stanzas form one single lump, the agogics are those of MIDI players, and one only perceives the forte dynamics which would like to give a brilliant character to the piece. Unlistenable.

ttw wrote:

This way of playing seems very useless only to me, completely devoid of phrasing: the stanzas form a single lump, the agogics are those of MIDI players and one perceives only the forte dynamics which would like to give a brilliant character to the piece. Unlistenable.

Often the performers of this music choose uniformity of dynamics to be close to the lack of dynamics in the harpsichord. What is the point of all this? If one makes the choice to play on the piano, what is the point of distorting the instrument that one is playing?

ttw wrote:

This way of playing seems very useless only to me, completely devoid of phrasing: the stanzas form a single lump, the agogics are those of MIDI players and one perceives only the forte dynamics which would like to give a brilliant character to the piece. Unlistenable.

I don't like Andras Schiff all that much myself; I find him predictable and at times a bit boring. That said, saying that he is completely devoid of phrasing and that he sounds like a MIDI seems really too much to me. On the contrary, it is a truly refined and sophisticated way of playing (sometimes, as far as I'm concerned, even a bit mannered) and rich in nuances; it is absolutely not true that there is uniformity of dynamics, nor that the instrument is distorted. The fact that the piano possesses a dynamic range that allows us to play Rachmaninov would not justify playing Bach as if he were Rachmaninov anyway.

ttw wrote:

This way of playing seems very useless only to me, completely devoid of phrasing: the stanzas form a single lump, the agogics are those of MIDI players and one perceives only the forte dynamics which would like to give a brilliant character to the piece. Unlistenable.

If you are referring to this video by Schiff, if I had to comment on it solely based on this video without ever having heard anything, I would refuse to comment. The recording is simply pathetic, not to mention horrible! The dynamics are all skewed by the capture. Aside from the enormous compression of the audio file, it almost seems to me that a compressor with an enormous ratio and a very low threshold was applied, behaving like a limiter. Indecent. I hope it is only the fault of the file compression; otherwise, one would want to punch the sound engineer who made such a recording.

Speaking of Schiff, his idea of Bach does not displease me at all; it's just that you need to hear one of his CDs and not this garbage.

... well, let's re-ear Marta is quite unambiguous....

A rather unfaithful performance

Tiger wrote:

A rather unfaithful performance

And unhappy. Even Gad Lerner understood it. The giga is embarrassing. Ramin even added a triple chin, is he relaxing too much?

Carlos wrote:

The fact that the piano possesses a dynamic range that allows us to play Rachmaninov would not, in any case, justify playing Bach as if he were Rachmaninov.

I agree, but where is the limit?... how far should one push it?... does it depend on whatever way the wind blows and suggest that Bach is better on the harpsichord? Otherwise, even by doing "nothing," it might already start to sound like Mozart, right?

Xenakis wrote:

I agree, but what is the limit?... how far to push it?... does it depend on how things turn out, that Bach is better on the harpsichord? Otherwise, even by doing "nothing," he might already start to sound like Mozart, right?

Ah of course, I agree: this has always been a problem, ever since Bach has been played on the piano. However, asking "what is the point of distorting the instrument being played?", claiming that not exploiting its dynamic range means distorting it, would be equivalent to claiming so for anyone who didn't play Chopin like Rachmaninov, or Schubert like Liszt, or Mendelssohn like Brahms, do you see what I mean? Every composer has characteristics that differentiate them, and Bach is no exception. The piano can eventually enhance these characteristics because it allows for dynamic differentiation in contrapuntal music that is impossible or very difficult with the harpsichord. Personally, I greatly appreciate pianists who play Bach without transforming him into a Romantic composer, but it is a very long discussion, one that doesn't touch upon our dear Bahrami at all, who has much more serious problems than these...

... and what about this?

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Silbermann, to me he doesn't seem that poor ....

Chopin wrote:

Silbermann, to me he doesn't seem that bad ....

At least he stays in time... :lol: (will he have the "click" in his headphones like rock musicians?).

The butcher perseveres ...

http://www.gadlerner.it/2012/11/23/ramin-bahrami-e-la-salvezza-nella-musica-di-bach