Bass harmonization workshop 2013

I also very much enjoyed AleGozzo's one. Sparkling and lively.

Ah, but... things are getting tough. The other works that arrived are beautiful too!

to Tronky:

- in the 2nd measure there are 2 chords, the F7+ (the A note I should have made fall with the F on the beat, but to give a better entry I made it enter later) and then in the 1/2 half of the measure the D-/F (basically D-6) as you say

- the doubling of the leading tone B... well, we are on a weak beat, even here to give "movement", manuals do not forbid doubling the 3rd, nor the leading tone

- "the final part seems too distant (in terms of harmonic content) compared to the initial part", here he hit the mark perfectly, let's just say that at the beginning I "followed" the "classical" harmony of the piece (I put many quotation marks because unfortunately for me music/composition is just a hobby) while towards the end I followed instinct more and ventured some more dissonant solutions (but perhaps more interesting)

a Aspirante:

the third to last measure begins with an A-(add 7+)/C, then a C#/C chord: it's the entire chord that is an anticipation (even if initially I saw it as an appoggiatura) of the C#/F (Db/F), likewise for the D chord which anticipates a G 9/7+ and the anticipation of the final chord C 11/7+

this all naturally by clinging to straws to "justify" the choices made, in reality in music there is no need for justifications, it is the listener who evaluates whether a passage is valid or not (so with different shades of judgment, there are those who love Nannini and Battiato and those who love Stravinsky)

the harmonic diversity between the beginning and the end remains as noted by Tronky, but then again it's just a bass exercise given

I understand Classic, as you say there is no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.... but one feels, as Tronky rightly pointed out, an enormous gap between the beginning and the end, so in the end, one tries to come to terms with it by one's own means

Anyway, you don't find a pop beginning and a dodecaphonic end in Nannini... and vice versa in Stravinsky, a dodecaphonic beginning and a tonal end.... so for me, coherence must be sought... even in an exercise if it is done as a hobby. In the end, we are all here to improve, some more (I do quite a lot) and some perhaps very little (like you).

One could have intensified the harmonic richness at the beginning or restrained oneself at the end

I thank Classic for their processing, it allows us to reflect on a couple of areas

First of all

classic wrote:

since it is merely a bass exercise

The fact that it is only an exercise depends on us; I have just published a work by Schumann built precisely on this bass by Clara.

http://www.pianoconc...2013-elaborati/

One of my first teachers always used to say that every piece is a small masterpiece; writing it as if it were our last (consider Schoenberg's Trio Op. 45?) makes us give more, and we automatically obtain many benefits.

The second point is the one highlighted by Tronky: coherence is an extremely important aspect that shines through in all great composers and can also be appreciated in Schumann's arrangement.

Playing "some more dissonant solution" at a certain point means, in some way, making it pass as a choice, which however does not marry the needs of the ear that has now tuned itself to the very different initial context. After all, composition is made of choices and renunciations, and Aspirante's argument holds water; sometimes one also needs courage to renounce or to dare from the beginning.

I believe that it is still possible, through a process (variations are an excellent tool), to arrive at transfiguring the material... but a handful of seconds is perhaps too little. Therefore, I like the idea, but it would need to be expanded.

Who would have ever thought, about Clara Schumann....one always learns something new

Zaccaria wrote:

Who would have ever thought, regarding Clara Schumann.... one always learns something new

Demos to Caesar what is Caesar's; the proposal (which I accepted very gladly) was made by Antares... who swore an oath to deliver one of his harmonizations.

well, anyway, since it must be pointed out:

FOR ME it was just a given bassline

that I created in half an hour at a bar table just to participate "in the game" (or is it also wrong to speak of a "game", perhaps one needs to measure every single word?)

basically to be part of the community (can it be called a community or does it have some other name?)

that then from any starting point a masterpiece can be made is well known (can one say it like that?)

anyway thanks for the suggestions

Imagine Classic, you can do whatever you deem most appropriate, but it was a good opportunity to also talk about this aspect... which in my opinion (obviously always with the caveat) is important.

It was a way to highlight the importance of the approach to the source material... even if given... among other things now that I remember my teacher used to repeat it even when I was doing the imitated and fugated bass at the fourth... there is no more data than that.

I confess, I also dedicated an hour to it during my lunch break ... (that's why there is only the theme and not the variations ...which I hope I will write sooner or later) ... what can I do, these seem like important things to me and if there is a possibility it can be a moment of growth for everyone, myself first.... in effect, my reflection also arose from the fact that if I hadn't known that the bass was Clara's and that Schumann had written variations for it, I probably would have approached it differently...

I always find suggestions stimulating, especially if well-posed and motivated...to "reassure" Classic, I can tell you that my bass harmonizations are very elementary and the suggestions received directly or shared by others towards other pieces are the most useful thing in the world...

It's a bit of the beauty of this "game", starting from a common idea and seeing how others behave and benefiting from one another...certainly, from me very little....

Frank wrote:

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, the proposal (which I accepted very gladly) was made by Antares... who swore to deliver one of his arrangements.

ohhhh now let's not exaggerate, I am still working on that poor bass but I am not satisfied, I will publish mine as soon as I am finished!!

@Frank

I usually struggle with sheet music too, I can't get by just by ear ... any tips?

I frankly would have difficulty with the harmonization of this bass line, because it is very short and revolves a lot around the tonic; the last 4 measures are the same as the first four and the relative harmonizations do not lend themselves to particular harmonic boldness (I - IV - V - I); furthermore, it is not in the imitated and fugato style, which eliminates another possibility for realization.

In fact, I found it difficult, but after Schumann's version and others from the forum members... I think it is a possible mission

Always at work... eh

Good to see you Geppino, don't you think that the fugato could even be constructed and superimposed on the bass? ...precisely because the degrees the bass touches are the classics also used in the fugue... as if there were enough for expositions ... no?

It's a shame not to have Frank's score; I followed the music with the bass leading and I hear a lot of imitations of the bass itself. I don't want to say something stupid, but at one point a bass part fits perfectly with the other... so if one wanted to, the idea of a fugato doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

Zaccaria wrote:

I usually struggle even with scores, just by ear I can't get through it ... any tips?

Do you mean on a formal level? Harmonic?

For now, you have the bass; if you observe it, at a certain point there is a sign of a refrain... if you follow the piece, you will realize that at around 25'' there is a fermata or some kind of pause... immediately after, a "new" texture seems to begin, even if it's not exactly new but rather brought to light at this point.

Therefore, at the end of the introduction and the beginning of the Theme, you will notice that there isn't a real refrain except in the bass, which has been harmonized twice in different ways. The material used in the theme (including the bass), which reprises some elements of the introduction, will then be the subject of variations... which you cannot hear yet.

I hope this helps.

geppino12575 wrote:

particular harmonic uninhibitedness

I wouldn't want to say something trivial, but it's not as if harmonic uninhibitedness is a requirement for writing something beautiful... clearly I am the last person who should talk about it, given the tortuousness of my harmonization

But seeing the first original harmonization, it seems beautiful to me, even though it revolves precisely around the same degrees...

... maybe it's just a delusion of mine, never mind

Frank wrote:

I hope it helps.

Yes thank you, I am absolutely not able to decipher the chords ... but at least now the structure is clearer to me

Zaccaria wrote:

Yes thank you, I am absolutely not able to decipher the chords ... but at least now the structure is clearer to me

as already mentioned in another thread, in my own small way I have written a harmony course (freely downloadable for free from LULU.com search "imparare la musica con armonia"), if you don't have a harmony teacher or don't already attend courses, you can take a look at it and eventually send me the exercises for corrections (naturally always for free)