Technical problems and their resolution

Bass strings breaking.....this has never happened before!

9 replies 920 views

Started by

principale8

Member

Member

Opening post by principale8

Posts
22
City
Lucca

I want to tell you what happened to me today and maybe compare notes with someone who has had the same experience, because in more than 10 tunings, something like this has never happened to me.

YAMAHA U1 upright piano, probably about ten years old, not tuned for three years. I go in calmly; these excellent pianos can be done in a couple of hours.

I enter this house and smell a very strong odor of humidity. They lead me to the room where the piano is. It seems to be in good condition, out of tune, action a bit stiff.... several keys make a suspicious TOC sound when they return.

I open it..... I see some small signs of mold here and there and immediately tell the owner that they must find a solution; there is no hygrometer, but we are certainly above 90% humidity.

I start tuning with my faithful Verituner, but almost immediately this key clicking gets on my nerves and I want to understand what it is.

I discover almost immediately that it is the glue holding the hammer shank to the cap block; they are almost all cracked and the shank "wobbles" in the hole, and when it returns and hits the felt strip, it goes TOC.

Probably the humidity expanded the wood and the rabbit skin glue popped off.

What do I do? Do I stop? Glue or tune? Gluing on site is not easy.... I decide to tune... we'll see later.

The central A is about 442Hz, so I decide to restore it to 442Hz.

A great piano... everything goes smoothly up to high C, key 88. A few tritones out of place but overall everything is calm.

I go back to A 442Hz and prepare to do the bass notes...

As long as I am on the triple-strung notes, everything is fine; I reach the copper-wound bass strings..... they aren't even that out of tune.... I loosen them a bit to bring them into tune.... I tighten again..... BANG, the string breaks. But how? I didn't pull it any harder than before. Well! I change it and move on.

I move to the one next to it to put it in unison; I loosen it a bit, then pull it slightly...... BANG, that one too!!! And I change this one as well.

I tune them and move to E.

I loosen the first one and bring it up.... all quiet, thank goodness!

I move to the second string, loosen a bit... pull..... BANG and this one snaps too. At this point I don't know what to do anymore, I have run out of spare strings...

Note: all three broke not at the tuning pin, but at the coil, exactly where it starts to wrap.

I try to make a knot; I know it's a dirty solution, but sometimes it has saved me.

I make the knot, reassemble the string.... pull, pull, pull and even before reaching that E, it breaks again, on the section of the old string this time near the pin.

In short, the new string section at the coil held up, the old one broke at the pin, so it is the strings of this piano.

Question: could it be that the humidity oxidized or deteriorated the bass strings? And why not the treble ones, which generally break more often?

Is it possible that the combination of copper + steel + moisture triggered something like electrolysis, which corroded and made the bass strings more vulnerable?

p.s. how did the tuning end? It's not finished yet.

I ordered the bass string that I didn't have, and I will go back, but I need to understand what strategy to use: do I lower everything? But is that the problem?

In my opinion, it is the loosening and re-tensioning that, regardless of whether I tune higher, stresses these bass strings.

You (Pianoexpert especially) what do you suggest?

Thank you

Moderator

Reply 2 by pianoexpert

Posts
3,876
City
rocca di papa

I don't know how long you have been doing this job, but given the premises you mentioned regarding the mechanics and the humidity the instrument has taken on, what happened is to be expected. Perhaps even the crown of the soundboard is off, and the soundboard itself no longer has elasticity due to moisture absorption for a long time. It is clear that 442 [Hz] puts too much strain on the soundboard load and the string tension. Everything is a bit out of whack. The leveling bends that form on the bridge and at the nut are weak points and, if there is rust, they become critical points, even if we are far from the breaking load! Some or all of these problems could be the causes of the failure. The important thing is that the client realizes the state of the instrument.

Very often, some people think that just calling a tuner to resolve all the problems with a single tuning is enough. We know that's not the case! Sometimes a "forgotten" piano can reach a condition where it is not advisable to intervene, at least with a simple tuning.

Now you are in the thick of it and I advise you to proceed only if the client is aware of the risks. Now it is not advisable to tune down, because you would shift the "leveling bend" itself.

Suggestion: wait to order bass strings until, in these cases, the tuning is finished.

Good luck with the work... let's hope for the best

Member

Reply 3 by principale8

Posts
22
City
Lucca

Thank you Paolo. Like you, I am Roman; I initially studied at S. Cecilia but then graduated in L'Aquila.

I have been following you since 2012.

I have been tuning and making adjustments for more than 10 years, after attending several courses in France and Germany, and then many private lessons with a tuning technician from Asti who taught me many things, which I then punctually rediscovered in all your videos, which are always extremely interesting and very clear.

What I wrote had never happened to me before and it truly caught me off guard, which is why I wanted to share it on the forum !!

I will follow your advice even if, as you write—evidently from lived experience—the problem is the client who, in my case, did not understand and attributes the responsibility for what happened to me.

To tell you, he even complains that the two new strings I installed have dropped a bit after one week !!!

Now the only thing that matters to me is to close [the matter] somehow, since with all these strings changed they are already in repair, and then ban him.

Thank you again and compliments on everything.

Moderator

Reply 4 by pianoexpert

Posts
3,876
City
rocca di papa

I also graduated at L'Aquila back in 1982. It is appropriate to bring new strings UP ONLY ONCE by half a tone and settle them near the frame pins and the bridge. When you encounter these cases, you must refuse. Then, if the owner insists, they must be aware of the great risks they are taking.

Lucca is a city I like very much; I have been there many times. I find it beautiful.

Let me know if you manage to get out of the nightmare. You will surely succeed. But try to explain everything we said to the owner and make them understand that the technician cannot perform miracles.

Moderator

Reply 5 by pianoexpert

Posts
3,876
City
rocca di papa

Another thing: try putting a drop of Svitol on the bass tuning pin and also a little bit, very little, on the string winding at the agraffe. Make sure the strings also slide on the bridges; otherwise, a little lubricant there too. Ensure nothing drips. Dry it if necessary. If you have dry Teflon spray, even better. You can also find it at "le Roy Merlyn"

Member

Reply 6 by principale8

Posts
22
City
Lucca

Graduated in 1982 ??? Then we must have seen each other for sure, me too that same year, the one of the World Cup !

Member

Reply 8 by albertoSonata

Posts
12

A truly complicated situation! Reading you all, a doubt arises in my mind: with such high humidity, isn't it possible that even the soul of the board has suffered? I started playing again as an adult and am preferring digital pianos precisely to avoid these technical dramas, especially if I want to study some romantic piece without any worries.

Moderator

Reply 9 by pianoexpert

Posts
3,876
City
rocca di papa

Excessive relative humidity is certainly the enemy of the piano. Swelling of the soundboard, jamming of the action pins, delamination, and absorption by the hammers. Strings get damaged and oxidize. Obviously, this does not mean one should always prefer digital. Even the latter can be damaged in the presence of excessive and constant relative humidity.

Member

Reply 10 by AJPiano

Posts
18

Good morning... reading your comments, I wonder if humidity could have also affected the stability of the tuning pins, in addition to the strings.

I hope the situation is resolved soon without too much tension with the owner... it's always a shame when the complexity of the instrument is not understood :)

Log in to participate