Chopin pieces (specifically)

antares86 wrote:

if you don't have rhythmic problems doing 3 against 4 and 2 against 3, otherwise you will have some problems....

However, do you agree that someone preparing for a diploma should have resolved these rhythmic problems?

"Rachmaninov Prelude Op.23 no.7 in C minor"

If what I remember is correct, the fact that a four-hand transcription exists says quite a lot

Gianni22 wrote:

However, don't you agree that someone preparing for their diploma should have resolved these rhythmic problems?

I can agree in principle.... although I fear it is not always true.... at least 3 out of 4.... as for 2 out of 3, I hope so, otherwise you won't do half of Chopin

Sure, anyway I was referring to some, let's say those that aren't extremely difficult:

SammyChopin wrote:

Sure, anyway I was referring to some, let's say the ones that aren't extremely difficult:

sammy, "extremely difficult" is always relative....

antares86 wrote:

sammy the extremely difficult is always relative....

you were referring to the nocturnes because I was referring to those

SammyChopin wrote:

you were referring to the nocturnes because I was referring to those

i was saying in general it applies to everything

antares86 wrote:

.... at least on 3 out of 4.... on 2 out of 3 I hope so, you don't do half Chopin

On the 3 against 4 (I had written 4 against 3 which is indeed different) I had opened this topic

http://www.pianoconc...791-4-contro-3/

Even in Clementi there are examples ... the rhythmic problem, where it exists, should absolutely be cleared up...

but what do you mean by "relative"? (Antares)

It will be ..."relative to one's own (real) abilities"...

but how are these rhythmic difficulties overcome?

SammyChopin wrote:

but how are these rhythmic difficulties overcome?

By studying over the years and with a lot of practice... essentially they are solfeggio problems that should be resolved at a "young" age (meaning years of study)

Even though I read that topic, I understood very little of it.

but having previously mastered a triplet against a duplet, can I easily master 3 against 4 as well, perhaps even basing it on that?

or rather 4 vs 3

SammyChopin wrote:

Even though I read that topic, I understood very little of it.

Maybe it's better to continue there... otherwise, nothing makes sense here anymore

Marziano wrote:

Maybe it's better to continue there... otherwise, nothing makes sense here anymore

i have already written there

I'll give you a quick answer here, 4 over 3 is much worse than 2 over 3 or 3 over 2

I am returning to the original discussion to give my very personal opinion, which I hope will be a welcome contribution for SammyChopin.

First of all (it may seem trivial but) it is fundamental to consider that the expressive difficulties in Chopin are equal to (if not greater than) the technical-mechanical ones. Without mastery of rubato, legato (or rather, legatos), and with a flat timbre, any piece, even (in fact, I would say especially) those that appear most approachable, loses depth and becomes as dirty and poor as a "difficult" piece played without technique.

For this reason, in my opinion, the preludes are absolutely pieces... rated 90/100. Among the most difficult...

From my point of view (and my experience), with the exception of a few pieces (like op. 69, no. 1), to tackle Chopin it is best to start immediately with the work that concentrates all his "instrumentarium": the etudes.

One might say: "but my technical level does not allow it yet". To this objection, I would respond with a series of observations.

Firstly, no one "is born knowing how". The goal is to grow, and so instead of risking learning an apparently easy Chopin piece incorrectly—fossilizing errors that are difficult to eradicate—it is better to approach the "didactic" work par excellence with absolute humility.

Secondly, let us not forget that Chopin was a pioneer of technique, revealing a series of gestures (use of wrist, arm, forearm, and body, exploitation of weight) that were unrecognized until then; the etudes are a sort of primer for these technical gestures, transmitting the codes to decrypt the difficulties of "mature" pianism: they should not be seen merely as "difficult" pieces, but rather as pieces that help overcome difficulties.

Thirdly, keeping in mind the teachings received and, above all, observing how those who truly play well move (Valentina Lisitsa was mentioned in another recent discussion), understanding how to approach every single passage, following a good study method made primarily of concentration and, why not, thanks to good reading, one can make giant strides even in a short time of period.

Gianni22 wrote:

"Rachmaninov Prelude Op.23 no.7 in C minor"

If what I remember is correct, the fact that a 4-hand transcription exists says quite a lot

I know the 4-hand piano transcription of the one in G-

I would make an effort for the Prelude in C# minor; with a bit of talent, if one is between fifth and eighth [grade/level], one should be able to pull it off

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