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Chopin - Waltz Op. 64 N. 2 - Nocturne Op.9 N. 2

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Thesimon

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Reply 21 by Gennarino

@Francesco1797

Dear Francesco, if I understood the meaning of your question, YOU are referring to the bass note that recurs every 3 eighth notes and to the chords of the subsequent two eighth notes which, together, constitute a chord.

Well, if I may offer you some advice, let's first understand what your difficulty is.

If it is represented by the bass notes, let's start by doing only the bass notes every 3/8 as an exercise for the left hand.

In doing this, be careful to make the movement you will make at the end; so, just to give an example, in the first measure with the bass notes Eb; Eb; Eb; D, DO NOT use fingering 5,1,5,4 (that's not what you will do, so don't waste time), but use (provided that it is what you think is best for You!) 5,5,5,5.

I often use 5 or 4 for the bass, freeing up 4,3,2 and 1 for the chord.

If the difficulty lies in the chords, observe the chords of each second and third eighth note (every three!): you may notice that the first chord (second eighth) has a note in common with the second chord (third eighth); therefore, you have a horizontal unison and this allows you to approach the relative chords with tranquility, using the finger assigned to said note as a "pivot".

If the difficulty is the transition from the bass to the chord, the things to do are those mentioned before.

When you do the exercise, the first few times look at the keyboard; the following times, start not looking and judge by the sound how much you missed it and correct, looking again, then not looking, etc.

Remember the advice Paolo gave on how to study passages that seem difficult to us.

[one thing that should be done, before performing a piece, is to identify the key(s), play the relative scales and pick out the main chords (and/or inversions)]

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Reply 22 by pianoexpert

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rocca di papa

You must always find yourself ahead of the chords. You must not "rush" to play them, but you must mentally "anticipate" the movement. As soon as you play the extreme note of the bass, you must already be thinking about finding yourself on the "small chords." The movement is calm if well "anticipated." Even in extremely fast passages, our mental anticipation counts. A good exercise: play the bass note and find yourself quickly on the chord without playing it. Notice if the fingers are calmly and quickly in the right position. If we notice that they are "searching for the notes," it means that we "don't know" which notes to play, or rather that we spend too much mental effort thinking about them, identifying them, and putting ourselves in the right position. All of this must occur even before our movement.

"Technical precision" is mainly originated from "mental clarity."

I hope to have been useful for now. A visual example is much more helpful.....

Reply 23 by Gennarino

Paolo, as always, like a true expert, brings out those considerations that are the distillate of experience.

In fact, the mental anticipation of difficulties can have two psychological effects, depending on whether you have prepared or not:

If you have prepared, time expands to such an extent that it seems infinite to you (you have all the time you want to perform the movement/series of movements required, verify that everything is in order, preview the sound you will produce even before "touching" and finally execute; sometimes I even manage to squeeze in a phone call).

If you have not prepared, anxiety takes hold, the brain becomes clouded in the desperate attempt (which will almost certainly go wrong, or will go wrong next time!) to solve the problem.

So follow the suggestion, because it is a harbinger of great musical results (no effect on the hands, enormous cerebral effects)

It is clear that the first few times you will make big mistakes because, for example, you will tend to play the subsequent notes first, which you were only supposed to think about (hand-brain inversion), or you will think in time but play late or not play at all because you have lost the beat.

Every time it happens to you, try to stop, think about where the error is, try again, at most slowing down the tempo (but do not change the movement! Remember what Paolo says!). Finally, remember that before going for a long run, one must practice doing short sprints; so, forward a few measures at a time, aided in this by phrasing.

Bye

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Reply 24 by Francesco

Posts
251
City
Torino

Gennarino wrote:

@Francesco1797

Dear Francesco, if I understood the sense of your question, YOU are referring to the bass that recurs every 3 eighth notes and to the chords of the subsequent two eighth notes which, together, constitute a chord.

Well, if I may allow myself to give you some advice, let's first understand what your difficulty is.

If it is represented by the bass notes, let's start doing as an exercise for the left hand only the bass notes every 3/8.

In doing this, pay attention to making the movement you will make at the end; so, just as an example, in the first measure with the bass notes Eb; Eb; Eb; D, do NOT use fingering 5,1,5,4 (that is not what you will do, so don't waste time), but use (provided it is what you think you should do!) 5,5,5,5.

I often use 5 or 4 for the bass, freeing 4,3,2 and 1 for the chord.

If the difficulty is the chords, observe the chords of each second and third eighth note (every three!): you may notice that the first chord (second eighth) has a note in common with the second chord (third eighth); therefore you have a horizontal unison and this allows you to approach the relative chords with tranquility, using the finger assigned to said note as a "pivot".

If the difficulty is the transition from the bass to the chord, the things to do are those mentioned before.

When you do the exercise, the first few times look at the keyboard; the following times, start not looking and judge by the sound how much you missed and correct, looking again, then not looking, etc.

Remember the advice that Paolo gave on how to study passages that seem difficult to us.

[one thing that should be done, before performing a piece, is to identify the key(s), perform the relative scales and pick out the main chords (and/or inversions)]

pianoexpert wrote:

You must always be ahead of the chords. You must not "rush" to play them, but you must mentally "anticipate" the movement. As soon as you play the extreme note of the bass, you must already be thinking about finding yourself on the "little chords". The movement is calm if well "anticipated". Even in extremely fast passages, our mental anticipation counts. A good exercise: play the bass note and find yourself quickly on the chord without playing it. Notice if the fingers are calmly and quickly in the right position. If we notice that they "search for the notes" it means that we "don't know" which notes to play, or rather we spend too much mental effort thinking about them, identifying them and putting ourselves in the right position. All this must happen even before our movement.

"Technical precision" is mainly originated from "mental clarity".

I hope for now to have been useful. A visual example is much more helpful.....

Gennarino wrote:

Paolo, as always, like a true expert, brings out those considerations that are the distillate of experience.

In fact, the mental anticipation of difficulties can have two psychological effects, depending on whether you have prepared or not:

If you have prepared, time expands to such an extent that it seems infinite to you (you have all the time you want to make the movement/the series of movements needed, verify that everything is in order, preview the sound you will produce even before "touching" and finally execute; sometimes I even manage to squeeze in a phone call).

If you have not prepared, anxiety takes hold, the brain becomes foggy in the desperate attempt (which will almost certainly go wrong, or will go wrong next time!) to solve the problem.

So follow the suggestion, because it is a harbinger of great musical results (no effect on the hands, enormous cerebral effects)

It is clear that the first times you will make big mistakes because, for example, you will tend to play the subsequent notes first, which you were only supposed to think about (hand-brain inversion) or you will think in time but play late or not play at all because you lost the timing.

Whenever it happens to you, try to stop yourself, think about where the error is, try again, at most slowing down the tempo (but do not change the movement! Remember what Paolo says!). Finally, remember that, before going for a long run, you must train to do small bursts; therefore, forward a few measures at a time, helped in this by the phrasing.

Hi

Thank you so much ... every time I am amazed by how everyone on this forum seems like one big family helping each other ... 😆 I will try to do as you say, then I'll let you know ... Thanks again for the very precious advice! Bye!!

Member

Reply 25 by Francesco

Posts
251
City
Torino

Gennarino wrote:

@Francesc1797

The Nocturnes Op. 9 are among the most intimate and romantic things of our Frédérick.

Be careful with the balance between the hands and the cantabile quality.

Hello and happy practicing.

Hi Gennarino ... given your availability, I don't hesitate to ask you which versions of Chopin's Nocturne No. 2 you have 😆 ... besides the original one ... Thank you so much!!!!! 😆 Bye!!! FrancescoaParigi

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