Yesterday, while talking with musician friends, a numerical imbalance between male composers and female composers was noted - within the field of classical music. While for past centuries the historical context in which women were sidelined could probably be a way to interpret the problem, it is much less clear what the interpretation should be starting from the second half of the 1900s, a historical moment in which female emancipation has reached - I believe - total completion.
Why is it, in your opinion, that the female composing world struggles to highlight names of a certain stature?
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aaa
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Reply 2 by aaa
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Evidently it is a world that does not attract the female sphere, perhaps if emancipation had arrived 2 centuries earlier... anyway the names of the greats would have been mostly masculine... and therefore the historical context would have nothing to do with it...
It is certainly true that numerical proportions are still in favor of the male gender, but as far as quality is concerned, there are many female composers who give several points to their colleagues... and I believe that quotas for women are increasing.
Aside from personalities who are now indisputable such as Kaija Saarihao, or Sofija Gubajdulina (who will receive the Golden Lion at the Biennale Musica this year), the first names that come to mind (in strict alphabetical order): Malin Bång, Ann Cleare, Ashley Fure, Clara Iannotta, Juste Janulyte… all born in the '70s-'80s.
there are also laudable precedents, especially on the borderline between classical, rock and pop. And names are plenty: Yoko Ono, Laurie Anderson, Kate Bush, Bjork. To these I add other key figures of 20th-century music, the first that come to mind: two great composers from the vast minimalist world, Meredith Monk and Pauline Oliveros, and "the" counterpoint mistress of almost all 20th-century American composers, Nadia Boulanger.
I have often thought that many pre-nineteenth-century composers were actually women who, for reasons of opportunity (social, historical, etc.), used a male identity :-)
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Gerardo
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Reply 6 by Gerardo
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ok guys, I didn't say there aren't any or there haven't been any... I was referring to a strong disproportion in the percentages.
the disproportion was there, it is undeniable, and it was primarily due to social factors. From the Middle Ages until the twentieth century, with the exception of the Renaissance in some geographical areas, composing was a male prerogative. At the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, the English composer Ethel Smyth was considered a sort of monster because she wanted to compose and conduct, even in the German style (she studied with Reinecke). I happened to read excerpts about her and they spoke of her as if she were a sideshow attraction, a woman who wanted to be a man, clashing with genres that were too masculine, such as the symphony. The relationships between "gender" and music have been at the center of musicological studies for quite some time, let's say from the '90s onwards. And it is now well established that the musical production system has often marginalized women, in access to the studio and in decision-making roles such as composer or conductor
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ttw
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Reply 8 by ttw
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...and yet the world of interpretation, today, seems much more feminine to me than masculine.
Surely the phenomenon is interesting...regarding the production system, I understand the director, but the composer seems more autonomous to me, doesn't he?
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Gerardo
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Reply 9 by Gerardo
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thallo wrote:
And it is now quite well established that the musical production system has often marginalized women, in access to the studio and in decision-making roles such as composer or conductor
But you are speaking using the past tense. I am talking about today; on average in the conservatory there is one girl out of 10 in composition classes... even the numbers for admission applications are disproportionate. I mean, I understand if they ask to enroll in conservatory X, 10 boys and 10 girls, and they take 9 boys and 1 girl.
... But what if the admission applications are 10 boys and 2 girls?
You understand that something doesn't add up for me, right?
Just take any male career from the past to realize that it would have been impossible for a woman to pursue it, except in exceptional cases. Or, just read a bit of the biography of composers who had a sister musician potentially capable of rivaling them (at least at the start), such as Mozart or Mendelssohn: the society of the past never allowed women the freedom and initiative necessary for such work. Being a composer meant venturing out, establishing relationships, frequenting court life and dealing with its officials (men), undertaking exhausting travels in search of commissions, defending oneself from intrigues and gossip from rivals, being able to sell one's scores to a publisher... All things impossible, given that the function of women has always been to manage offspring and domestic life. Let us realize that in the past, for example, it was decidedly inconvenient for a woman to undertake a journey alone... Nevertheless, there have been many female composers (and perhaps more in the Baroque than in the Romantic era, for various reasons), it's just that they are not known because they were unable to influence the context in which they operated; and this is not due to a question of skill, but because their context always remained very closed, almost never aided by travel and contacts: sometimes they were nuns (like Isabella Leonarda), sometimes noblewomen at court (like Élisabeth Jacquet de La Guerre), or opera singers (and, in this case, their compositions were considered pleasant diversions from their main activity of singing). Or they were like Fanny Mendelssohn, who had to wait to marry an understanding man to see her compositions published (against the will of her father and her famous brother).
As for the 1900s and today, I believe it is not at all simple for a woman to work with composition (nor with creation in general... For example, the world is full of female architects, yet it is very rare to see them commissioned for great works like those of a Fuksas or a Piano). And I believe this stems from pure prejudice, that is, from a mentality that is still very widespread.
It is no coincidence that women in politics are many, but those occupying key positions are very few... No? It's the same thing.
probably the long wave also reverberates on today's world.
Let us remember that Italy is a state where discrimination exists and is strong. Many of our mothers are housewives; we have low percentages of female employment, which become extremely low when compared to other Western countries. Women still have specific roles in the working world, suited to gender, "care" roles: women are nurses, general practitioners, social workers, teachers, shop assistants. I tend to evaluate these scenarios by thinking about social structures and "distortions," and the patterns that we unconsciously tend to repeat.
The music world is even more closed than other working worlds. We have old and traditionalist teachers who teach according to preconceptions; there is little space for young composers, and when there is little space in general, males emerge (we are more competitive); I had heard of a study on machismo within IRCAM, I found the extremes, and it was written by one Georgina Born, a British scholar and composer; according to her, the world of computer music is very masculine and tends to perpetuate an elitist and chauvinistic pedagogy, much like in private circles. I don't know if all these things can "explain" the lower percentages of female composers and composition students in the world, but they certainly make us understand that there are resistances to the total openness of the musical world
But you are speaking by conjugating in the past tense. I am talking about today; in the conservatory, on average, there is one girl out of 10 in composition classes... even the numbers for admission applications are disproportionate. I mean, I understand if they ask to enroll in conservatory X, with 10 boys and 10 girls, and they take 9 boys and 1 girl.
... But what if the admission applications are from 10 boys and 2 girls?
You realize that something doesn't add up for me, right?
A it seems logical to me: why should a girl study in a sector where it is harder for her to work? And the family's opinion...? We are all open arms when it comes to chatting on a forum, but I would like to see if your daughter tells you she wants to be a composer...! Not long ago I met a boy who wanted to study the harp, but his parents (musicians) practically forced him to study the piano. So imagine... It seems clear to me that only those driven by very strong motivation enroll.
i had heard talk of a study on machismo within IRCAM, I found the details, and it was written by one Georgina Born, a British scholar and composer
This interests me, I will certainly look for it.
In fact, if you look at the participants of the last three years of Cursus 1 http://www.ircam.fr/600.html?&L=1 we have a ratio of 11:3, 9:5, 11:4 in favor of the male gender. More or less the same story this year at ManiFeste (and it seems to me that Impuls does not deviate much from these proportions). On the other hand (to repeat myself) quantity does not mean quality!
I very much share the idea that quantity does not mean quality.
Besides, I continue to be a supporter of the principle that there should be fewer music students in Italy...
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Zazza
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Reply 15 by Zazza
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RedScharlach wrote:
On the other hand (I repeat myself) quantity does not mean quality!
But when talking about proportions, it seems obvious to me that one is referring to a base of homogeneous samples, so I think one is referring to disproportion in terms of equal quality...
are you able to process homogeneous samples of composers?? I imagine the sample would be "enrolled in composition courses at a conservatory" or "graduates of composition courses at a conservatory", and quality has little to do with this
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Zazza
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Reply 17 by Zazza
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The sample is among composers homogeneous in level... not students or recent graduates, a simplification on your part. If it were not so, the topic would have no reason to exist.
I believe it is only a matter of time, and the proportions will reach 50%; regarding quality, it is difficult to make statistics since the world of composition is a world where the subjective aspect matters a lot, beyond technical abilities.
I do know some female composers, however, and they are also very good.
