Composing a soundtrack with Cubase

Points 1 and 4 are connected; film composers often write the score only if requested at a later time (i.e., for marketing or concerts). The product that interests film producers is the audio, and given the harmonic simplicity of modern soundtracks (with exceptions), one almost always sits down at a MIDI keyboard and records instrument after instrument on a sequencer... (obviously, there must be some guidelines). This is the solution many composers adopt when delivery terms are short.

As for the rest, I don't know how to answer; I am not a composer, so the answer I gave was suggested only by my intuition.

mathisdermaler wrote:

Good evening everyone,

I am a composer who so far has dealt with musicians "in the flesh"... I have Cubase 5 on my PC and I know little about this program (I have always used it to work with MIDI files imported from Finale associated with East West Silver and Gold VSTs). The possibility of writing a soundtrack for a short film is opening up to me, but I would like some clarification from those who have already used Cubase for this purpose:

1) I have read that soundtrack composers often write the score only at a later stage: how is that possible? Do they compose "randomly" until they find something that works?

Because most likely, in a first instance, they prepare the piece or pieces directly with the software; then, once everything seems to work and sound good, they move on to writing the score, verifying that the latter is

written correctly. It is not a strange practice; on the contrary, if one is experienced, they can even do it sooner.

2) Why, when the soundtrack is performed by a full orchestra, are the individual sections recorded separately? Is it to apply effects to each of these sections? If so, what kind of effects?

They are recorded separately precisely to have full control over both the dynamics (volume, intensity), both the panning (instrument positioning), and any (as you wrote) additions of effects (reverb, sometimes delay, surround positioning, i.e., positioning that allows one to perceive one or more instruments as if they were, for example, behind you).

3) Do you suggest working with MIDI tracks or audio tracks? Keep in mind that, at least in the way I have worked so far, I first write the score in Finale and from there I export the MIDI file (one track per instrument) into Cubase.

The way you have worked so far is fine, especially if it is a method you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is better to work on MIDI tracks because you have almost total control over every parameter related to performance.

Obviously later on (or before, as you usually do), specifying changes in articulation, dynamics, etc., is no small task and, if the piece requires it, involves a significant amount of work.

4) I have an M-AUDIO 49-key MIDI keyboard: could it be useful to me in composing soundtracks, considering that for now I do not possess the tools to record acoustic instruments live? Or is it superfluous, given that I already have the MIDI file from Finale?

To say that a keyboard is superfluous would seem nonsensical to me; on the contrary, it is more than useful, particularly for verifying the correct positioning of notes, because every software allows you to specify, for example, the middle C of the piano on the piano roll. For instance, I use Sonar and it was already set up correctly (even if it is named differently in English), but in other software, you might find the typical middle C an

octave below or an octave above how the notes should be positioned on the staff.

It is an aspect I am very careful about when exporting scores (especially electronic music), but in any case, first of all, I verify that the VSTs (virtual instruments usable with these audio/MIDI software and, in some cases, notation software) all have the same note set as middle C; then, at that point, I start working on the piece, so that I find the score already correct from this point of view during export.

The only thing I do not check, because at least for electronic music I do it this way, is the key I am in and other specifics that would involve a greater expenditure of time.

5) Does a soundtrack score also include any effects that are added during the editing phase? (I am thinking of echo effects or other things like that)

On some software, you can even apply effects "intended" for audio tracks to MIDI tracks; with Sonar I can do it and I have already tried several solutions.

Anyway, even if you have something in mind, effects should be applied practically at the end of writing, because first you should make sure how the piece sounds in "dry" mode—that is, without effects—then

once it sounds correct, clean, as you want, and the instruments are clearly perceptible, add the effects.

Thank you very much for your help!

Thank you for your answers, you have cleared up my ideas a bit... I will still look for manuals to study the functionalities of Cubase in depth. However, I would like to understand one thing better, Piccinesco: I have never had octave problems in Cubase; since I already have the MIDI files ready (exported from Finale), what more could the keyboard be useful for? Could I perhaps play some sections of an instrument in a solo moment, maybe, to give more realism? Other uses don't come to mind, unless I use it to "try" composing in sync with the video.

Thanks again!

One could say that the keyboard provides, albeit relatively, a direct "contact" between what one has in mind or is developing in the moment and the "live" perception, which in some cases can help to "visualize" the desired interpretation in a more natural way.

Certainly for solo parts, but not only.

mathisdermaler wrote:

1) I read that film composers often write the score only at a later stage: how is that possible? Do they compose "at random" until they find something that works?

2) Why, when the soundtrack is performed by a full orchestra, are the individual sections recorded separately? Is it to apply effects to each of these sections? If so, what kind of effects?

3) Do you suggest working with MIDI tracks or audio tracks? Keep in mind that, at least for how I have worked so far, I first write the score in Finale and from there I export the MIDI file (one track per instrument) into Cubase.

4) I have a 49-key M-AUDIO MIDI keyboard: could it be useful to me in composing soundtracks, considering that for now I do not possess the tools to record live acoustic instruments? Or is it superfluous, given that I already have the MIDI file from Finale?

5) Does a soundtrack score also include any effects that are added during the editing phase? (I am thinking of echo effects or other things like that)

Thank you very much for your help!

1) They don't compose at random, obviously. You start from a musical idea and look for the best way to realize it. That's all. Using a keyboard inside a sequencer changes nothing in terms of musical writing: in Finale, the score is displayed traditionally; in the sequencer, it is seen in another way and you just have to get used to it. But essentially, nothing changes.

2) I assume you are referring to a virtual orchestra; separate sections are recorded to equalize them as best as possible during mixing and, in general, for greater control over the volumes of individual parts. In general, however, a virtual orchestra is already equalized by default, so there is no need to do much and only master management remains.

3) One always works with MIDI tracks because the realization must be thought of "in blocks": you have to work with sequences and scenes, and this is much faster to do within the sequencer, for many reasons.

4) A larger keyboard can be useful for inserting articulation keyswitches while playing; otherwise, you have to insert them manually afterwards; regardless, you can still work with 49 keys.

5) Almost no one uses "only" orchestral instruments. These are usually not manipulated with effects, whereas that is indispensable for electronic pads, ambient morphing, ethnic percussion, etc. You must equip yourself with libraries that allow you to tackle any genre; otherwise, it is difficult to satisfy requests in this field. And this is another reason why one works in MIDI; the traditional score in Finale is useful in some cases, but it is not manageable with electronic sounds.

CromaDiBrera wrote:

2) I assume you are referring to a virtual orchestra; separate sections are recorded to equalize them as best as possible during the mixing phase and, in general, for greater control over the volumes of individual parts. In general, however, a virtual orchestra is already equalized by default, so there is no need to do much and only the master management remains.

No, actually I was referring specifically to real orchestras that are recorded section by section. I believe, however, that the intention is the same as what you are talking about.

mathisdermaler wrote:

No, actually I was referring specifically to real orchestras that are recorded section by section. However, I believe the intent is the same as what you are talking about.

No one thinks they can use a real orchestra to make film music anymore. It's out of the question, both for budget and time reasons. Forgive my bluntness, I don't want to discourage you; but the truth is that you often find yourself having to write down half an hour of music in a couple of days, let alone a real orchestra...! Well-known professionals have had to do entire soundtracks within three days, only to perhaps have the job rejected in favor of other competitors and to have worked day and night for free. This is why there are even ready-made virtual libraries for ensemble effects: you have to know how to be extremely fast. If you think you can sit there with your fine orchestral score writing a "woosh" or a "braam" note by note, you are completely on the wrong track. John Williams did those things in the '70s (that is, 50 years ago), but nowadays soundtracks are made in a completely different way. And HE was John Williams. Furthermore, today sounds are used in a hybrid way, meaning mixing synths, orchestra, loops, and everything that modernity puts at your disposal. The norm is that a director or an editor, within the same project, may ask you for very different approaches: in a short film, you might encounter a comedic "mickey" (meaning sticking closely to the sequences), or an electronic ambient piece, or an epic piece, or an ethnic world genre... And what do you tell them? "I'm so sorry, but I only write for orchestra (and, on top of that, to be performed live)..."? It doesn't exist.

If you want sincere advice, learn to use a sequencer VERY WELL (Logic, Reaper, Cubase, whatever you want), equipped with some useful libraries, and try to tackle all the technical issues of editing to images; otherwise, you could even be Beethoven reborn, but if they commission a job based on images, you will never succeed. This is what I can tell you from the little direct experience I have had.

It depends, Mauri... It's not a given.

It depends on the budget; in Rome, there are a couple of studios that record orchestras for film and fiction scores. Everything always depends on the budget. Certainly, when the budget is low, one opts to create soundtracks using sampled instruments. A sampled orchestra, regardless of the final project, is always useful for the composer to make a demo and hear how what they have written sounds, and to make some modifications.

TheSimon wrote:

It depends, Mauri...

Maybe you were replying to me, not to Piccinesco.

I just wanted to be realistic: we are talking about a composer (perhaps very talented) who is being offered his first experience with a short film and he is wondering how it's possible to do it without writing a score first... It is obvious that he is off track: you can make short films before someone offers him a soundtrack to be realized calmly with an orchestra. I don't want to contradict anyone, and of course, orchestral production studios exist, but I would keep my feet on the ground: how many fiction series, films, or documentaries in Italy are made with an orchestra? Just turn on the TV and count how many times you happen to hear one, unless it is a film by Piovani or Morricone. Moreover, it is much more likely that there will be a budget rather than the time to write scores. Maybe the money is there, but the problem is that the musician is almost the last cog in the wheel (I say "almost" only because then the sound designer arrives to mix all the film's audio, which obviously isn't just music) and the time left to them is normally very little, unless they have a name so big that they are the "star" of the film (but only Morricone...!). Not to mention, if for some reason there are changes during editing, then you are really screwed: everyone expects you, after the director and the editor have taken their time, to make your "correction" on the fly. These things happen often. And it's obvious that moving and re-editing everything in a DAW is one thing, but revising a score and, perhaps, having it played by an orchestra is another! And besides, it wouldn't just be the orchestra... It's not like you go there, conduct your nice "thematic" pieces, and you're done: they also have to be synchronized, and there is a lot of people who have to work on them.

Personally, regarding libraries, I wasn't even referring to those that simulate a classical orchestra; they are used for this or that sound, but they aren't enough. Often, instead, orchestral ensemble libraries are used, where you already have the ensemble effect beautiful and ready and extremely realistic. In practice, professional cinematic libraries are designed for that, and not for making music in the "classical" sense.

An experience that may be interesting for those who want to hear their own soundtracks performed by an orchestra

http://www.filmmusicworkshop.com/#!home/etgsf

The exact same Bulgarian orchestra from the workshop also performs and records original compositions at relatively modest prices. The workshop is beautiful, but if one truly wants the satisfaction of a live performance of one's own orchestral piece, one can easily contact them to ask for a quote regardless of the workshop (which costs 3,200 euros). I know someone who did this and was quite satisfied. Even Carlo Siliotto (a very established film composer in Italy, Golden Globe nominee in 2007) has used the same orchestra for some works. But we are talking about a film composer born in the '50s, absolutely not "computerized" and who has his own good support team tinkering in pre-production... But that is not the rule, I repeat. Among the younger ones, there are people like Piernicola Di Muro (who studied in L'Aquila with Morricone) or Susanna Quagliarello (who studied in the USA), established both in Italy and abroad, who don't even dream of using live orchestras: people who, when talking about music, think exclusively in terms of images; they are filmmakers who aren't interested in "being a composer," except to participate in the making of the film, just like the editor or the lighting technician. It is a decidedly different philosophy from those who start as composers in the classical sense, thinking of "lending themselves" en passant to images as well. Quagliarello, moreover, even holds courses for those with only elementary notions of music theory, just to say how much knowing how to write music matters...

In conclusion, I would advise our friend to listen to a lot of film music, to learn to recognize the style of various composers based on images, and to search the web for all possible information about their activity, their way of making music, the type of cinematography they cater to, etc.

Furthermore, there are free and legal programs that allow you to download videos from YouTube and, if you have something like iMovie, you can practice quite a bit to understand how one works with film music.

P.S. Just to stay on theme and just to say that, before thinking about composing soundtracks with a full orchestra, one must go through decidedly frustrating experiences...

This is a job I did a couple of years ago. After three days, everything was perfect and splendid: first screenings for the client, people being moved, and many compliments. Then the director suddenly decided to change the entire edit, and I had to redo everything within 24 hours.

In the end, the sound technician mixed in background noises that slaughtered my audio by cutting frequencies, in addition to making massive mistakes like the girl calling from the bus with a "fish effect" (she is mute), or the heartbeat on the child being out of time (which I had marked with pizzicatos, as heard in the first similar sequence). To top it all off, my "partner" didn't write a single note, but had procured the job, so his name in the credits precedes mine. I came out of it so frustrated and exhausted (and with a dear friendship now strained), that I destroyed all the files and kept only the very first edit (just to be able to prove, should the need arise, that it is my work)...

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CromaDiBrera wrote:

Maybe you were replying to me, not to Piccinesco.

[...]

Personally, regarding libraries, I wasn't even referring to those that simulate a classical orchestra; they are used for this or that sound, but they aren't enough. Often, instead, orchestral ensemble libraries are used, where you already have the beautiful ensemble effect ready and extremely realistic. In practice, professional cinematic libraries are designed for that, and not for making music in a "classical" sense.

Yes, I was replying to you, I got confused...

I disagree regarding the choice of pre-packaged libraries. The fake [sound], aside from the sound itself, can be felt because everything is packaged and poorly customizable. Antares knows something about this. He also started with pre-packaged libraries, but then by working on the sound and various effects, the result is something else entirely. If a Mix must be done, I am of the opinion that one must work as they do in mixing studios. You start from 0 by importing the stems and arranging them one by one within the context of the mix.

CromaDiBrera wrote:

P.S. Just to stay on theme and just to say that, before thinking about composing soundtracks with a full orchestra, one must go through decidedly frustrating experiences...

This is a job I did a couple of years ago. After three days, everything was perfect and splendid: first screenings for the client, people being moved, and many compliments. Then the director suddenly decided to change the entire edit and I had to redo everything within 24 hours.

In the end, the sound technician mixed in background noises that butchered my audio by cutting frequencies, in addition to making massive mistakes like the girl calling from the bus with a "fish effect" (she is mute), or the heartbeat on the child being out of time (which I had marked with pizzicatos, as heard in the first similar sequence). To top it all off, my "partner" didn't write a single note, but had procured the job and so his name in the end credits precedes mine. I came out of it so frustrated and exhausted (and with a dear friendship now strained), that I destroyed all the files and kept only the very first edit (just so I could prove, should the need arise, that it is my work)...

Who did the sound design?

Anyway, these things happen, get used to it... Often, those who take the credit are Pinocchios who don't understand a damn thing, and probably if you hadn't been there to do the "dirty work," everyone would have noticed.

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TheSimon wrote:

If a Mix is to be done, I am of the opinion that one must work as they do in mixing studios. You start from 0 by importing the stems and arranging them one by one within the context of the mix.

Honestly, I don't think I understood what you mean by "importing the stems". Speaking of libraries, I wasn't making it a question of mixing.

TheSimon wrote:

Who did the sound design?

The sound designer was the same one who, usually, does the soundtracks for the director. But I didn't want to be too malicious... Anyway, technically speaking, what ruined everything was the direct wind recording, which is also rich in low frequencies. Even today I can't wrap my head around it: this thing was projected in cinemas, just imagine...

CromaDiBrera wrote:

I sincerely think I don't understand what you mean by "importing the stems". Speaking of libraries, I wasn't making it a matter of mixing.

Well, the audio quality that makes the difference all comes from there.

CromaDiBrera wrote:

The sound designer was the same one who usually does soundtracks for the director. But I didn't want to be too malicious... Anyway, technically speaking, what ruined everything was the direct wind recording, which is also rich in low frequencies. Even today I can't wrap my head around it: this thing was projected in cinemas, just imagine...

It doesn't seem like a bad job to me... I was asking you about the Sound Design because in some parts it is objectively poorly done, all out of sync and with noises that have very little realism. In some cases, they are choices; but it is easy to tell when it is a choice.