Composition In Db Dorian - K1 -

but is there no way to hear it?

A question that might seem stupid to those who know this subject, but I feel the need to ask it:

how can one recognize a piece that does not have a tonal center; this is possible in some cases even during the composition phase

relatively to the use of chromaticisms that fall outside of any specific tonality, including harmonic and melodic major scales, and above all how the use of flat instead of sharp is established in a certain passage, if for example, as in the score in question, there does not seem to be a link between "the movement of intervals"?

This type of writing could suit my needs regarding some pieces (but this is due mainly to my way of conceiving

the structure of a piece, and also to a current lack of synthetic capacity in it, as well as to the specific lack of ability to realize an adequate development starting from a simple motive that clearly belongs to a tonality.

The piece in question has a tonal center; it is C# (according to the written notes) or Db (according to the title of the piece), and within it, there are passages that clearly refer to a specific tonal center. The main idea is precisely the sequence C# - Eb - E, which is nothing other than C# - D# - E or Db - Eb - Fb, i.e., I - II - III degree in minor mode. What makes this piece modal is not a potential lack of a tonal center, but rather the use of the Dorian mode—that is, a minor scale with a major sixth, or an ascending melodic minor scale with a minor seventh instead of a major one; choose whichever you prefer, it's the same thing. In this specific case, it involves Bb (or A#) instead of A natural, which makes the mode Dorian rather than Aeolian (natural minor scale). In the score, there don't seem to be connections between the intervals because the accidentals are placed haphazardly, but if one were to write it with the correct enharmonics, those connections would certainly exist.

One should not think of modality as something totally foreign to tonality and vice versa; tonality itself is based on a scale (the major scale) which is nothing other than a mode, the Ionian mode, and therefore all the hierarchical relationships between the degrees still hold true in modal music, they just undergo the nuances and colors resulting from the accidentals specific to each individual mode. This is why I do not agree with this approach of opposing the modal to the tonal. Many pop music songs are also modal; many are based on the Dorian mode, blues is based on the Mixolydian mode, Neapolitan folk melodies on the Lydian mode, but we don't consider them a separate world from tonality.

Hierarchical relationships between degrees no longer exist in serialism, but they do in modal music. And anyway, answering your question is very simple: to decide whether to use a sharp or a flat when there are no intervallic relationships, one follows the motion of the parts; if the "black key" derives from an ascending motion, a sharp is used (e.g., C - C# - D is preferable to C - Db - D), if it derives from a descending motion, a flat is used....

geppino12575 wrote:

And anyway, answering your question is very simple: to decide whether to use a sharp or a flat when there are no interval relationships, one follows the motion of the parts; if the "black key" derives from an ascending motion, a sharp is used (e.g., C - C# - D is preferable to C - Db - D), if it derives from a descending motion, a flat is used....

There, it's clearer this way; a concise answer that clarifies some things for me. I had doubts because sometimes, seeing scores of contemporary music, I thought there should be (or could be, rather) relationships between the movement of a voice and the choice of the alteration to apply to it; this way it is clearer.

Regarding modes, I need to study them; with this brain, making notions stick in my memory is a mess. It's probably more likely that a tsunami will occur on Everest than for me to remember everything I read; regardless, I must do it because this means nothing other than having more freedom in writing, precisely because one knows how to do it and, above all, one knows what one is doing—this is freedom, something I had never experienced until a few months ago, and I am still at the beginning.

The doubts regarding this score came to me specifically while looking at the various alterations and the motion of the parts; that is why I decided to ask for information, which you have clarified, thank you.

Piccinesco wrote:

Regarding modes, I have to study them; with this brain of mine, making the concepts stick in my memory is a mess, it's probably more likely that a tsunami occurs on Everest than for me to remember everything I read.

Don't get discouraged, Piccinesco: judging by the music you make, you remember well what is needed to express yourself in a truly original way, and sorry if that's little... Take notes instead, so you can kindly explain it to me too: when I read 'dorian' instead of 'doric', I get hiccups and I can't go into any depth on anything.

Don't give me too many compliments, it will be enough for you to hear the other invention to regret having encouraged me; a while ago I was looking up the modes on the internet, they interest me because a few months ago, as luck would have it, I tried to analyze a Bach chorale, and the maestro told me that I had hit exactly one of those in which Bach used one of these modes, so I had made quite a mess.

However, regardless of this experience—on one hand ill-fated, on the other precious—the interest is there because this information, if you'll permit the term, represents an infinite series of paths to travel for writing and for understanding (perhaps it would be better to invert these two terms), and my awareness that I am only using 1% of all this is growing; I am fully convinced of it. I need someone to slap my hands, because if I apply myself for 5 minutes, I waste the remaining 50 in improvisations that lead to nothing, or at least very little. Time flies, and what could be learned in 30 days could be learned in 1 hour. For practically a year now, I haven't seen my composition teacher; he is so busy that sometimes he can't even write to me, and I understand, although on one hand it's fine—it's positive that he is playing during this period, and who knows how long it will last; on the other hand, it's not good because I still need to study progressions, just think where I still am.

There are things he must explain to me in person but we still haven't managed to meet; anyway, I have to contact him and let's see if we can arrange a meeting before August, too much time has passed.

So, off the top of my head, regarding the modes, I remember (not exactly their function, but the terms):

dorian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian; the others don't come to mind. I know I look like an idiot, but I am telling the truth, just off the top of my head without looking anywhere, these are the ones that come to mind. Let's see if I reach the point where I have to hide under the sand, let alone just my head. I seem to remember that the mixolydian mode was the mode on the 5th degree, so it should be based on the succession of degrees as if we were in G?

Of course, the Mixolydian is that one. And it has been called Mixolydian (in Italian) for CENTURIES.

Ah finally, it means I haven't completely lost my mind, ok.

Aside from the fact that these terms are spectacular, they make everything increasingly complicated.

I would suggest a different approach than usual for memorizing modes: instead of referring to them by the degrees of the C major scale on which the relative modes are formed (I Ionian, II Dorian, III Phrygian, IV Lydian, V Mixolydian, VI Aeolian, VII Locrian), it is more profitable to write or memorize them all starting from the same sound; this way, the differences between the nuances specific to each of them stand out to both the eye and the ear. Therefore, if we start all modes from C, we will have:

Ionian: C D E F G A B (major scale);

Lydian: C D E F# G A B (major scale with an augmented fourth, Neapolitan scale);

Mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb (major scale with a minor seventh);

Dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb (natural minor scale with a major sixth);

Aeolian: C D Eb F G Ab Bb (natural minor scale);

Phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb (natural minor scale with the second degree lowered);

Locrian: C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb (natural minor scale with the second and fifth degrees lowered).

In this way, the difference between which and how many modes are major and how many are minor also becomes visually apparent.

It is also possible to obtain other modes by combining the alterations of two modes into a single scale; for example, one can obtain the Lydian Mixolydian mode (C D E F# G A Bb) and many other combinations; there is an even more altered mode called superlocrian, etc....

For me, this approach is simpler than starting each mode from a different note of the C major scale, as the latter system makes the various modes that are formed feel distant from one another because they have different tonics and are therefore difficult to compare.

Even here, I couldn't reply from my phone; it's strange, but I can't find the connection link on the display.

Anyway, I would like to ask a question (thanking Geppino in advance for the clarification, which was very useful):

let's say we are in the Lydian mode, which means a 4th degree altered and an interval ratio with the fundamental of an augmented 4th

(or increased), assuming that the F# relative to G major is not present in the key signature on the sheet music, just to be sure

to find myself facing this mode, must I be able to detect this alteration constantly on the sheet music, and having sequences

of degrees where it is evident that the fundamental is indeed not G but in this case C (similarly, if I had this mode on another degree, for example A, instead of having G# acting as a leading tone, I would have D#, 4th degree altered, am I correct?)?

I am mentioning the term "fundamental" and not tonic precisely because I think (and let's see if I am right or wrong) that in these

cases one cannot speak of a defined key, also due to the fact that there are no accidentals in the key signature, right?

One more thing, tell me if it is correct: since they are modes and not scales, and especially in the minor mode we know there are "hierarchies" regarding the alteration of certain degrees, such as the 6th and 7th in the ascending melodic scale and the return to the natural state in the descending one, with the exception of Bach's version where the 6th and 7th degrees remain altered; does something similar happen here that can be "compared" to Bach's melodic scale, precisely because there is no true leading tone, or does the B continue to have its role?

COMPOSITION IN Db DORIAN - K1 -

The Dorian mode is characterized by an uncertain progression as it is not a tonal center. The capacity to be tonal centers belongs to the modes: PHRYGIAN, AEOLIAN, MIXOLYDIAN AND IONIAN. The modes: Lydian, Dorian and Locrian do not have the capacity to be tonal centers, so when playing in such modes there is an underlying tonal uncertainty due to the constitution of the mode itself. The Dorian mode expresses feelings of sadness, oblivion, not to be confused with feelings of romanticism or passion which are more properly expressed by the Aeolian mode. Unlike the Aeolian mode, the Dorian mode "withstands" chromatization better because, as already stated, it lacks tonal power. It is like saying that an individual with a weak personality is more easily influenced than one with a strong personality.

Advice on how to read and perform the score.

1) Note alterations are valid only for the current measure.

2) The alteration applies only to the same note. That is, if you find an Eb on the fifth space, that alteration does not apply to other Ebs located elsewhere on the staff and consequently on the keyboard.

3) Alterations in the treble clef and those in the bass clef are completely independent.

4) The reference metronome speed is approximately 80

The "mode" should not be seen as a collection of notes. The "modal scale" is a collection of notes; the latter is used in tonal harmony to identify the spelling of a given scale and facilitate the musician's task.

The "mode" is the expression of a state of mind.

At the base of tonal harmony, there is an Ionian organization, meaning that modes are built upon the Ionian scale.

At the base of modal harmony, there is a Lydian organization, meaning that modes are built upon the Lydian scale because only it holds the "pure major sound," as it possesses only one tonic and not two tonics like the Ionian scale.

In the Ionian organization, the V degree is a Mixolydian scale which functionally has a notable cadential tendency towards the tonic triad.

In the Lydian organization, the Mixolydian scale is on the second degree, and therefore the cadential tendency towards the tonic triad is absent.

Playing modally means freeing modal scales from the functional role they possess in tonal harmony, and to do this, one must conceive them in another tonal system, namely making them arise FROM THE DEGREES OF A LYDIAN SCALE and not from an Ionian scale.