... Conducting While Deaf

The person in the film who is down there making gestures to Beethoven is an invention (a terrible one, if I may say so) of the director, who was probably referring to the famous "immortal beloved" and really wanted to force it upon us... That said, it is true: Beethoven conducted his 9th Symphony when he was already completely deaf. But, attention, one very important thing must be specified: in Beethoven's time, the figure of the conductor on the podium was only just beginning to develop (and Beethoven was, in fact, precisely the first composer to conduct without playing the harpsichord, as Mozart, for example, used to do). At that time, the "true" conductor was still the first violin (who was called, precisely, "leader first violin") and therefore Beethoven, who was conducting his own music anyway, was assisted by a musician whom the orchestra certainly referred to much more than the Composer. Another debatable detail: in the video you posted, Beethoven conducts with a baton. That is not possible. That is an object that will definitely appear later (not by much, but let's say about fifty years or so). At that time, and precisely because the figure of the conductor as we know it did not yet exist, the baton had not yet been introduced. I agree that it is a film and that it must captivate the audience, but still...

I would be curious to know Carlos's opinion on the development of conducting as summarized by Wiki, even though I know he doesn't like it: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direttore_d'orchestra

For the little that I know, however, it would be interesting to at least recall the traditional figure of conducting from the keyboard (because of a style that is no longer traditional, but rather already fully romantic), carried out by Haydn for the Salomon concerts. And, no less, the role of conductor in Beethoven's first piano and orchestra concertos supported by Antonio Salieri (among his early teachers, as is well known), which to me appears to be among the precursors of the role.

I don't know why, but I have this memory that someone might be able to refute.

The first was conducted by Beethoven, who gestured but without hearing what was coming from the orchestra, with Kapellmeister Umlauf having instructed all the musicians to follow him while completely ignoring Beethoven. At the end, Beethoven had not realized he had fallen several bars behind and the soprano, Carolina Unger, interrupted him, making him turn around so that he could see the audience applauding.

CromaDiBrera wrote:

I would be curious to know Carlos's opinion on the development of conducting as summarized by Wiki, even though I know he doesn't love it: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direttore_d'orchestra

No, why?, that's not true: it is an excellent tool but I don't like it when one limits oneself to just that (what are you referring to in particular? don't tell me you made an observation to me and I don't remember, because I might have serious self-esteem problems...).

Regarding the brief summary of the evolution of orchestral conducting, the error lies in identifying Bülow as the first "conductor" who dedicated himself exclusively to it, because that is not the case. The first conductor was FRANCOIS HABENECK (1781-1849) who worked at the Opéra de Paris from 1824 to 1846 and who founded the Société des Concerts. To him is owed the introduction of the classical repertoire in France (especially Beethoven); to him, it seems, is owed the introduction of uniform bowing and a working method that reaches us today, with incessant rehearsals before public performance (Beethoven's IX for 3 years, the Fifth for two, and anyway never for less than 5/6 months). Berlioz would come to know Beethoven through Habeneck's performances and Mendelssohn would praise his "most perfect execution." Paganini wanted to follow H.'s example for the reconstruction of the Orchestra Ducale in Parma, and Wagner in his über das dirigieren, speaking of melos, would refer to Habeneck's performance of the IX.

During the performance of Comte Ory at the Opéra (1828), Habeneck for the first time positioned himself with his back to the audience and close to the stalls, whereas until that moment conductors had placed themselves under the stage to conduct the singers, leaving the task of conducting the orchestra to the first violin.

Another great conductor who, in Italy, begins an interesting chronology, is MICHAEL COSTA (1808-1884), a Neapolitan conductor who succeeded Spohr in London. At the Philharmonic Society, Costa modified the arrangement of the orchestra, which was previously arranged in an extremely steep manner with the brass very high up, whereas after his modification it would be placed in a more conventional way, with risers, but arranged in a way more similar to the modern one. Costa will be succeeded by none other than Wagner, in 1854. In fact, HABENECK and COSTA are the first two "conductor-conductors," even if they are remembered less, because they didn't even write a single note.

I don't know if it's true, someone will confirm or deny, when Beethoven was about to go deaf and had his first difficulties he used mirrors to check the flutes, verifying their positions.

(... perhaps conducting the Fifth?)

In general, aside from Beethoven who went deaf, I wonder what the point would be in conducting an orchestra while deaf.

In general, it applies to all performers: if I can only hear what is in my inner ear... I might as well keep this; instead, I can understand a composer who may have the need to put on paper what he hears inside.

GoffredoLiguri wrote:

In general, aside from Beethoven who became deaf, I wonder what the point would be in conducting an orchestra while deaf.

In general, this applies to all performers; if I can only hear what is in my inner ear... I might as well keep that; instead, I can understand a composer who may have the need to put on paper what they feel inside.

Aside from "what the point would be," it would be impossible. In fact, there are no deaf conductors.

One conducts with the ears more than with the arms

GoffredoLiguri wrote:

she used mirrors to check the flutes, verifying their positions.

...mirrors always help