Counterpoint ... Pianistic

... I was just asking that myself, how do we deal with the sustain pedal?

The piano adds difficulty to those accustomed to measuring themselves against instrumental counterpoint (choir, orchestra, organ, etc.) in the sense that with the piano one should aim for a proper synthesis... it is not certain that all voices must be "completed" in the written passage, certainly thought of but not developed and reported in full, otherwise the instrumental gesture would not be replicated.

centuries ago, a pianist whose name I don't remember (but only that he knew his stuff) told me that to study Mozart (contrary to those who said that Mozart must be played strictly without pedal) ONE MUST use the pedal but giving the impression, upon listening, of not using it.

extending the concept to piano counterpoint, in my opinion, the resonance pedal should be used but with a different use than usual.

in short, it should be used as if it were a sixth finger for each hand, so as to achieve clear, well-finished phrasing and melodic profiles. the same applies to Bach.

certainly, by not using the pedal and relying exclusively on the work of the 10 fingers, the range narrows; the targeted use of the resonance pedal, in this sense, would substantially expand the field of action. it's not easy, though, eh?! it requires impeccable mastery

of this particular type of technique. among other things, this pianist also told me that there are about 14-15 different ways to use the resonance pedal.

ScalaQuaranta wrote:

there are about 14-15 different ways to use the sustain pedal.

... could some pianist with balls cite about ten of them?

Thanks in advance

Marzapane wrote:

...could some pianist with balls cite about ten of them?

I am not a pianist, however:

- full pedal

- half pedal

- quarter pedal

These 3 elementary gestures for 2 different types of grip: before pressing the key down, with the key already down

And that makes 6

...come on, I'm only missing 8 or 9

Scale, okay for Mozart... but an evolution of language towards total chromaticism, I think "excludes" certain problems

Or rather, it shouldn't be used randomly, but once tonal limits are removed, counterpoint can lend itself to various effects... think also of a continuo, there are other elements that come into play.

I hope it is clear what I mean

Even if the pf has a sustain pedal, it doesn't necessarily mean you must use it; on the contrary, its absence can allow for a crystalline language (clear, while always staying within the 10 fingers)

the use of the pedal that I mean, in this specific case, is not the overlapping of harmonics, but the clear definition of the melodic profiles of the various voices involved in the counterpoint, regardless of the nature of the harmonic structure. absurdly, according to the opinion of this so-called pianist I met (and which I share), if we had six fingers per hand, we could do without the pedal.

in this regard, I would like to point out a small book dedicated to this subject, "LA TECNICA DEL PEDALE" (Pedal Technique) which illustrates the various modes of use in detail. I don't remember the author but it should be a famous pianist.

6 fingers, but also extension... damn, the keyboard is a meter and a half wide

Out of curiosity regarding the use of the pedal, I advise everyone to watch, when the feet are filmed, how Gould uses it in the very famous video of the Goldberg Variations... was someone still convinced that GG didn't use the pedal? Well, you will change your mind and see a truly refined use of the pedal (I know, I'm a bit of a monomaniac, but watching that video I learned so much).

I would also like to remind you that the pedal on the piano is not only intended to sustain sounds and create improbable halos, but it also has a specifically timbral use, for enriching a single sound: in certain cases, the timbre of the piano needs the pedal to result in a softer sound.

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I fully share Carlos's intervention.

in addition, I take the liberty of enriching the list of pedal techniques, even though I am not a pianist with much experience...

the pedal can intervene during caesuras, at the end of a phrase or, even better, at the end of a period; intervening appropriately
also based on the texture one is in, slowing down just as if one were doing it with an automobile accelerator,

one obtains something very similar to when one 'decelerates' with the volume pedal on an electronic organ.

maybe/perhaps I managed to find the details of the text I was telling you about:

"MODERN PEDAL TECHNIQUE" by Karl Ulrich Schnabel

it's not very big, just a little book but rich in content

and at a fairly honest price: 10 euros

totally different from Gould but the same one adored by me, there is Perahia listen here how he uses the pedal without losing clarity, sublime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGH1WJwWyYs

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