Damper adjustment

I always noticed that the first 6 diminuendo (the ones where there are problems), after the 2 "cuts", have a fork shape both in front and behind, while the subsequent ones only have a fork shape in front, while behind the felt is flat (and looks newer, could it have been replaced?)

Regulating the dampers is one of the most difficult jobs. Let's start from the beginning. Respect what the Manufacturer has chosen. Ensure that the felts are not too hardened by time and too worn. Replacement must be done with felts of the same width, length, thickness, and position.

Each damper must rise perfectly vertically and fall "perfectly" on the strings with the simultaneous participation of the entire length of the felt.

The mechanics of the dampers themselves must be checked and excessive friction eliminated.

Their rise must be simultaneous for all. To achieve this, once the mechanics are removed, the damper lifter bar is placed against the base of the dampers and locked with a shim. Subsequently, all parts are unscrewed and screwed back in, allowing each damper to fall gently onto the string. Afterwards, recheck the "rise" of each piece and correct any longitudinal displacements by acting on the metal rods with pliers.

A lot of patience and calm is required, even if the position is uncomfortable.

Check the simultaneous release from the strings.

Good luck with your work.

P.S. sometimes one part of the dampers may be flat and another "three-string" type. This can be found at the beginning of the tenor section.

Thank you so much! I am only replying now because I had problems with my PC :S

I managed to regulate them, but unfortunately, since the dampers are old and not all of the same length, they do not respond simultaneously; I think it's time to replace them.... those about ten fork-shaped ones, both front and back in the mid-low range, cannot be fixed.

How much would it cost on average to replace the felt of all of them? Since it doesn't seem like a good solution to change only some of them, assuming one would hear the difference..

You must consult a good technician who has the patience and competence to perform the replacement and regulation work using quality materials. The cost of the material is not excessive, but it requires quite a bit of work (disassembly, reassembly, regulation of individual parts in all directions, regulation of the let-off for each, regulation of the "tutti").

P.S. I would advise you to replace the entire series to avoid discontinuities.

I am joining this discussion with a small question: how many dampers are there on a grand piano? Thank you

Nanuccio wrote:

I am joining this discussion with a small question: how many dampers are there on a grand piano? Thank you

In my piano, there are 70 dampers, from the lowest note to the penultimate F-sharp.

I don't want to say something foolish, but I think I heard that there are particular pianos, among the Bösendorfers, that have dampers even on the part where they are generally missing.

I asked this question because it seems to me that mine is missing one.

I counted them and there are 74, but the wooden bar underneath them extends a bit further, giving the visual impression that one is missing. Who knows!

If the bar has an empty hole, this is possible. Maybe it's not that necessary. Anyway, if your technician has one to install, it's better to fill the small gap....but don't "damn" yourself if that is not possible.

Good morning, I am reopening this discussion because I have other dampers to change but I don't know which spare part to purchase. I would like to change all the central fork dampers of the medium, but I don't know which felt might be suitable, since even the technician who installed the previous ones did not have a facsimile of the original despite the many types he possessed, and he hybridized a couple for me that were very large and thick but dampen in a different way

I would buy from the Renner dealer since they are the manufacturer.

By any chance, do you know which fork dampers (3 strings) the Schimmel 208 uses or where I could ask?
I am not so sure that if I send an email to the dealer they will know.

It is a type of damper about 13-14 millimeters, very bulbous in the central part but with "feet" in the very last millimeters that are very thin.

Shortly I will make sure to post the photo.

I took a screenshot of a YouTube video of another piano; I see it uses the same ones, but here the central section is half fork-shaped and half "flat," while in mine they are all of the first type.

In my opinion, Renner-type ones should be installed but with a horizontal weave (like the ones Steinway uses). They dampen better and last a long time. The fact is that from the photo (unless it depends on optical distortion), it doesn't seem to me that the dampers in question fall perfectly vertically. This is very important for the effect of simultaneous sound damping. It is fine that they are halfway three-string and partly (rear) flat. Even the two wedge-shaped ones for the bass strings that I see in the photo do not seem to fall vertically. One must also choose a three-string felt that has the end part with a long, narrow tip (1 mm).

Assembly is difficult. Many alignments must be checked, working on the levers and the inclination of the heads. Also check the smoothness of the action underneath the levers.

First of all, thank you for the reply; I rarely have a good connection, so I apologize in advance for responding so late.

You noticed the same thing I thought, which is why when I adjusted them, I adhered to this "regime" of tilting them to the left as they used to be.

At first, I made sure they fell straight, but harmonically I found that the piano gave only a fifth of the effects it gave before.

So I repeated the entire operation trying to highlight this characteristic as much as possible. Formidable, there is a world beneath it; I had the impression of controlling the harmonics one by one.

(Instead, the spoons that lift the damping on the part of the key were adjusted to rise at most a few millimeters above the string, while I made sure that the damping action from the pedal begins very low, and that the maximum lifting level from the pedal slightly exceeds that of the key).

Then I wanted to repeat the experiment by also making the tonal pedal work, but the result was no longer the same as before, and the resonance pedal gave an impression of extreme hardness; so when returning it to how it was before (or how I believed it was before), I can no longer give it the same balance (I think I should work on it a bit more).

Now the fork ones, after so much stress, have become uneven, so I intend to change them.

As far as the Steinway dampers are concerned, I had the chance to see them side by side; they are the most similar but have a thinner body. In fact, I had thought, in the absence of anything else, of installing those very ones, and who knows what effect they will give me. Well, the brand alone stimulates me to try, and quite a bit. The problem, in my opinion, is understanding if they will give me added value... or if in this case Schimmel has found the perfect formula.

What do you think?

You don't necessarily have to buy the exact ones that Steinway uses. It would be quite difficult to source that material. But non-original ones also exist, provided they have a horizontal texture. In my opinion, they are better... however, they are not indispensable. The important thing is that the size of the "wedges" is such that they fit easily into the spaces between the strings. Anyway, I believe the "trick" lies in the regulation. At this point, it is worth replacing the felts, I agree, because they could be "distorted" by the adjustment movements you illustrated.

Yes, I am convinced of it too; I think that regulation is the key point for better functionality because, after all, it is the correct contact with the key that creates the "feel," however, when the damping is different, I sense a different "arrangement" of harmonics during semi-closure.

Anyway, there are updates: I was given the name of the Renner felt for my Schimmel model. In the description, among other things, it says "vertical felt," and I was wondering, does it refer to the type of vertical weaving?

In this case, it wouldn't be the best, and I would propose installing something better.

But let's say that the important thing is to choose the right size and the right shape. Perhaps they were replaced and not well cut, or chosen in an inadequate size. They must be cut very precisely! and centered with a special tool. Then during assembly, one must find perfect verticality and simultaneous release. Otherwise, during the decay, those harmonics that you hear at the tail end of the sound's closure are generated. Demanding and thankless work. However, if not perfection, a good result can still be achieved. Renner parts are of excellent quality and durability.

pianoexpert wrote:

Let's just say that the important thing is to choose the right size and the right shape. Perhaps they were replaced and not well cut, or chosen in an inadequate size. They must be cut very precisely! and centered with a special tool. Then during assembly, one must find perfect verticality and simultaneous release. Otherwise, during the decay, those harmonics that you hear at the tail end of the sound's closure are generated. Demanding and thankless work. Anyway, if perfection isn't reached, a good result can still be achieved. Renner parts are of excellent quality and durability.

Eh indeed, the technician had cut them with a special purpose guillotine; I read in the catalog that it cost over 300 euros... obviously I won't buy it. I will engineer a way to find an analogous method that doesn't ruin them... I was thinking of a "cigar cutter".

It's a hell of a job; to bring it to the state it is in now, I will have spent about 12 hours.

Perhaps it would be convenient to get help from a technician and maybe see how it's done; between materials, labor hours, and results, I think it will cost you more to do the job yourself... Replacing the dampers is one of the most thankless jobs. Especially if they are the strip ones that need trimming and cutting even more...

The guillotine is not good. Cutting them flat, the cut is never clean and the felt can deform. A special shaper is needed. I would prefer pre-cut pieces, even if they are not always found in different sizes. Furthermore, the bows of the mids and highs should have a small stitch in the center. This gives shape to the "bow" itself so that when it drops, it does not make a noisy impact with the string and dampens better.

Especially the three-string wedges with the guillotine deform, it's true; those that are already sharp (with the correct angle) are better