Did Beethoven Ever Meet Rossini? And What Did They Talk About?

Hello Micheluzzi, the pleasure is mine.

Here we are once again in the field of suppositions.... (supposed news). In reality, the wretched pun does not lack lubricating meanings. (one must see the other topic regarding the veracity of sources) So: 1) what do we know from Beethoven about Rossini? 2) conversely, what has the Pesarese [Rossini] handed down to us? 3) Are there testimonies from third parties? 4) Is there concrete proof of one visiting the other and when it would have occurred? I am used to fresh water, so I need my sources clean and from the mountains. Obviously, these are the notebooks. Rossini's testimony is worth zero, even if we decided that Our Man was an extremely reliable person and absolutely in good faith. (this applies for a substantial reason: his comment will never be super partes). Therefore, the notebooks: Notebook V Folio 20a, Tancredi and Otello, he has a certain genius, something that cannot be denied, but he is a slovenly man devoid of taste. (first annotation on Rossini) in total, 21 annotations on Rossini from 1819 to 1823, all rather unflattering, but written by another hand, perhaps to please Beethoven, who was averse to music judged too frivolous (how lovely the annotation "the gentleman brother has learned that the court counselor Kiesewetter and several others have held judgment on Rossini, condemning him to 100 lashes at Popecia, and then hanging him" (notebook XXVII, mid-March 1823). This was the context in which the meeting between the two took place. Let us not forget that it was transcribed in 1860 at Michelotte, so at least several decades later..... (if it were true....) if you want to read the full text, you can find it in many books, and also here: http://www.rodoni.ch/mose-rossini/rossini-wagner/rossini-wagner.html . I take the liberty, however, of providing a transcription: I had already listened to some of Beethoven's quartets in Milan and I do not need to tell you with how much emotion and admiration! I also knew some of his compositions for piano. In Vienna, I attended the first performance of one of his symphonies, the Eroica. That music shocked me. I had only one thought: to know that great genius, to see him, even if just once. I spoke about it with Salieri, whom I knew was in contact with Beethoven. To satisfy my desire, he thought the best thing would be to speak with Carpani, the Italian poet who was a welcome person to Beethoven; it was certain that with his help he would succeed. In effect, Carpani worked with such insistence with the master that he obtained his consent to receive me. Do I need to say it? Climbing the stairs that led to the wretched dwelling in which the great man lived, I had some difficulty controlling my emotion. When the door opened, I found myself in a kind of filthy and frighteningly disordered hovel. I remember especially that the ceiling, just below the roof, was traversed by large cracks through which rain must certainly have poured in torrents. The portraits of Beethoven that we all know collectively reproduce his physiognomy quite faithfully. But what no engraver could ever express is the indefinable sadness that emanates from his face, while under the thick eyebrows, like in deep caverns, his eyes, even if small, seem to pierce through you. His voice was sweet and a little veiled. When we entered, without paying attention to us, he remained for a few moments bent over a page of music that he was finishing correcting. Then, lifting his head, he said to me abruptly, in quite understandable Italian: "Ah Rossini, are you the author of The Barber of Seville? I offer you my compliments, it is an excellent opera buffa; I have read it with pleasure and enjoyed myself. As long as there is an Italian opera house, it will be performed. Never try to do anything other than opera buffa; wanting to succeed in another genre would mean forcing your destiny." Carpani, who was accompanying me, interrupted him immediately, naturally scribbling in German and translating word for word for me; this was the only way one could hold a conversation with Beethoven; he wrote: "But Master Rossini has already composed a large number of serious operas, Tancredi, Otello, Mosè; I myself have sent them to him, requesting that he examine them." Beethoven replied: "In fact, I have glanced at them, but you see, serious opera is not for Italians. To treat true drama they do not have sufficient musical doctrine; and how could they ever acquire it in Italy?" I communicated to him all my admiration for his genius, all my gratitude for having allowed me to express it to him... He replied to me with a deep sigh and these few words: "Oh! an unhappy man!" After a pause, he asked me some details about Italian theaters, about famous singers, wanted to know if Mozart's operas were frequently performed, if I was satisfied with the Italian company in Vienna. Then, wishing me a good performance and success for Zelmira, he stood up and accompanied us to the"

...always and only in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

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Always respond only in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

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Respond in Italian.

Armando, you are a machine! Even too clear, thank you

Armando, sooner or later I will manage to convince you to write a book...

i can already see the title: "Beethoven, the miserable genius" by Armando Orlandi.

Ahahahahah dear Simone, you will never be able to convince me! I was thinking of two aspects: the first "miserable", I believe you are referring to it in the sense from the Latin miserere which means "to feel compassion"... in this case, that beautiful "miserere nobis reluctis" from the Mass in C major Op. 86 comes to mind, more human and less sublime than the Missa Solemnis.... perhaps you found an autobiographical note? I will reflect on it. The second, speaking of microkosmos (which is not the spectacular 1996 film by Claude Nuridsany, nor Bartok's piano work) is the topic started by Gianfranc0 (who perhaps should be here) titled "Sweet and adorable (and unlucky) Ludwing van Beethoven". Obviously - apart from the intrinsic goodness of the subject treated - which must not be a matter of my evaluation - the response contains a prompt that could make me write several pages on an under-discussed subject, namely (you would never believe it): In which and how many ways has the name "Ludwig van Beethoven" been written. Gianfranc0, perhaps by oversight, writes it "Ludwing" (and Carlos, rightly, scolds him without saying it, with great delicacy, "eliding" the n). However, I have seen many contemporary "modus scrivendi" as well: Ludwig van Beethoven, Louis, Luigi, Luiggi, Bettoven, Van, Von, etc... up to the mythical "Ludovico Van" of the Drughs from A Clockwork Orange. By the way. Ludovico is incorrect: Luigi is the exact translation. Finally, if anyone knows "Tremate, Empj, Tremate" Op.116, they will know that the text is by Mr. Bettoni..... And who was this guy???? But yes...... it was Him!!!!

Friendship,

Well, in numerous treatises one hears talk of a Beethoven who was completely inadequate and closed off to civil society, or rather to high society. It almost seems as if the genius living within him could only accept himself. In this sense, "miserable" seems like a more than adequate adjective, when viewed through the retrospective lens of our modern times. It is always sad to hear of lonely people living in misery, despite being great geniuses. I remember with great melancholy a gentleman named Pietro Panoni, who had dedicated his life to philosophy, poetry, painting, and sculpture despite not having great cultural knowledge, but as we know, in their time not everyone could afford an education. This person, unlike Beethoven—who perhaps, correct me if I'm wrong Armando, deliberately avoided high society—was quite the opposite; he was far too open to society, to the point that people seeing him approach would often change their path to avoid hours of philosophical reasoning. I, on the other hand, always took pleasure in meeting and exchanging opinions with a man who lived in the solitude of his misunderstanding, who had the strength to make a choice that was anything but simple by dedicating his life to art, but above all, that despite his economic problems, his extreme loneliness, and his sometimes overwhelming thoughts, he always had a smile on his face and a heart full of joy. A person who transmitted peace. Today they are no more... He probably looks at us "miserably"...

I leave you one of his poems:

THE REASON FOR DEATH

Sister death

who since ancient times
no cause could be found for you
now it is clear,

you are a devoted servant, but to what?

To evolution!

And to go where?

To do what?

And the eternal rational mystery

under a high mantle

still rests.

Taken from this link: http://www.monteroma...egone/#more-612

PS. Forgive me if I went a little Off Topic

Dear friends,

I am returning to this subject, as I have published on the site (here is the link) http://www.lvbeethoven.it/Libri_online/Libri_Completi_Online.html the original book in which Michotte speaks for the first time of the meeting between Rossini and our Ludwig. Meeting in the 1820s, account from 1860, book from 1906......

Despite everything, you can now admire the great evocative power of this meeting. Thanks to Luigi for giving me the opportunity to plunder his immense library; his service to Art and to Knowledge is priceless!!!

Friendship.

Thanks Armando!