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Digital advice ~€1000

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dvan

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Opening post by dvan

Posts
4
City
Napoli

Hello everyone,

I am about to replace my M-Audio Keystation 88 keyboard with a digital piano.

My budget is around €1000; let's say I can reach €1200 with some effort, but only if you tell me it's truly worth it and I get a significant leap in quality.

What I would like is the furniture stand, although I am aware that I would be sacrificing part of the price just for that and not for the mechanics or the sound. I am not interested in additional sounds; I would like a nice Grand Piano as faithful to an acoustic one as possible; however, regarding the key weighting, I would like it to be at least somewhat decent, even if with €1000-1200 I cannot have great expectations. My current KeyStation is very, very light, but despite that, I find pleasure in playing it... perhaps because I love playing.

In any case, I have already done some (extensive) research on the internet and compiled a list that does not exceed my budget and does not have "too negative" reviews. Naturally, please point out pros and cons, and if you know of a piano that is not on the list, feel free to tell me.

Obviously, I haven't managed to look at all the topics, but let's say I've formed an idea.

The problem is that:
- few appear to be available in stores (I will mark them with ^);
- some of these do not come with furniture, so I would eventually have to add another €100-200 for a stand (stable, furniture-style, not the "X" type or other) (I will mark them with *)

ROLAND RP401R ^ (slightly over, we are almost at the limit, but if it is clearly the best of all, I can consider it)

Roland rd700sx *

Roland F110

Roland HP-201

Roland HP 204

Yamaha Arius YDP-S52 B (same story as the first Roland)

YAMAHA CLP320

YAMAHA YDP140

YAMAHA YDP163 ^ (same story as the first Roland)

Yamaha NYDP142R ^

KAWAI CL 20 *

Kawai CL 26 ^

Kawai CL 36 ^

Korg LP-180 ^

Casio Privia PX-830

Casio AP-260 ^

Casio AP-460 ^

Casio PX-860 ^

Kurzweil MP-20 (same story as the first Roland)

I have taken a look at all those on the list at Merula, Scavino, and Amazon, but I really wouldn't know how to choose, and I rely on your opinions (preferably if you have tried it in person, especially for the mechanics and weighting)..

Thank you very much to everyone

PS: I cannot get an acoustic piano due to apartment building rules, nor can I think about a silent system, since only the latter would exceed my budget :S

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Reply 4 by dvan

Posts
4
City
Napoli

The Kawai CL26 is for sale on scavino.it for €729 (excluding shipping), which seems like a super affordable price to me, especially since the stand is already included. Do you recommend it? Other people have advised me to go over (quite a bit) my budget and get an ES7 for about €1000 + €100-150 for a separate stand. Do you think it's worth it, or is the CL26 still excellent in terms of mechanics?

Thank you very much for the answers

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Reply 5 by Thesimon

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4,504
City
Ariccia, RM

Look, it all depends on what you need to do with it... I prepared most of my diploma on a Yamaha P-95, I've told you everything...

Certainly, if you need to use it for professional purposes, it is better to opt for something better, but if you use it for study, the Kawai mechanics are perfectly fine.

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Reply 6 by dvan

Posts
4
City
Napoli

Haha great, congratulations! (For the P-95).
I am considering a deal on the Kawai Es7 for about 1000€, but in the meantime I'm continuing my research!

Thanks a lot

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Reply 8 by Cicciolinuks

Posts
12
City
Lontano

Hi, the Casio PX-860 and AP-460 are practically two identical instruments in different cabinets; to be sure, compare them on the Casio website, but instead of you, I would take the Privia which costs less, even though the Celviano with its larger cabinet should have a more natural sound (natural resonance within the cabinet). The opening lid that directs the sound towards you, which both have, is interesting.

Casio has a new 2018 x70 series; the Celviano AP-270 is already available, so you might find the 260 discounted.

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Reply 9 by Cicciolinuks

Posts
12
City
Lontano

I wrote my experience elsewhere but I don't know if I can refer to external forums via links; if so, I can point out a couple of discussions where I spoke about my tormented choice, which I will summarize below. Maximum price: €1000.

After long research in the shops in my area and reading on the internet, I personally arrived at having to choose between 2 pianos: Roland F140R and Casio Celviano AP-270 (before discovering this new instrument, I was being directed towards the Privia PX-860, equivalent but cheaper than the AP-460 - saving on the cabinet). Idem: the Roland 501 should be identical to the F140R, differing only in the cabinet.

I had dismissed brands like Casio from the start because for me it was a brand that produces watches and, at most, keyboards that no one I know uses. Roland, praised for light music, didn't seem to me suitable for classical music.

Long readings and visits to shops led me to having to choose between these two models. Note that we are taking into account the €1000 available; re-note that I haven't tried everything and I am not a professional.

The prestigious brands at those prices offer very little beyond the keyboard and the piano sound, which is what everyone looks for at the beginning. But then, you look around and notice that the Casio and Roland keyboards are not bad (on the contrary...) and are equipped with 3 sensors per key (the possibility of re-striking the key without it returning to the resting position or almost), things that other companies provide but at higher prices. The Casio sound is not bad and has a polyphony of 192 sounds which, in its category, including the cabinet etc., no one else offers. Larger models reach 256, once again more than their price-category colleagues.

All good models offer: hammer action keyboard, heavier in the bass registers, more or less excellent instrument voices; many models have synthetic ivory/ebony, so in a certain sense every choice is the right one. Therefore, you must let your touch and taste, needs, and wallet decide.

Below is a comparison between the two mentioned instruments.

Casio Celviano AP-270
I recommend it if you want to play/learn within the classical/jazz scope; you can record both hands separately; you can connect a tablet with an educational application that Casio promised to release in November '17; it has few sounds (22) but all of excellent quality, improved with the x70 series; it has the Concert Play functionality (also present in previous Casio models) which allows you to play with a recorded orchestra, replacing the pianist; greater polyphony (192 notes). Compared to previous ones, it has a new Steinway New York piano alongside the already existing "European" piano - a bit of news because everyone samples European or Japanese instruments.

Roland F140R
If you also want to play light music, it has rhythms; it has many more musical instruments, and you can connect via Bluetooth if you use other devices with educational functions, so you don't need wires like in the aforementioned piano; it has more powerful speakers, a feature that allows for acoustics specifically designed for headphones (when they are plugged in, obviously); the tactile simulation of the escapement that a pianist feels when pressing a key on a grand piano (double escapement); recordings of Czerny and Hanon.

In summary, the Casio is more essential, but what it has is oriented towards the piano and its study, while with the Roland you can do anything, even light music; it has hundreds of instruments but not all at the same level (it costs a bit more but offers more).

Not being able to compare the models on the same day/in the same shop, I won't include in the comparison above the feeling that the Casio's half-pedal is better; to be sure, I would need to have them side by side. Despite not completely giving me a "wood" feeling like higher-end models, they are well above keyboards that give a "plastic" feeling.

For my needs, I will almost certainly buy the AP-270 in the coming months. I live abroad but an Italian online shop offers me the best price, shipping included.

There are many other noteworthy ones, I wouldn't want to repeat what I have already written in other virtual places... noteworthy are the Kawai DP90, the Yamaha Arius... and there are many brands, good or bad...

The Kawais and Yamahas, suggested to me in many places, gave me inferior tactile sensations in this price category; obviously, it is necessary in these cases to reiterate that these are personal sensations that might not be shared (de gustibus non est disputandum), moreover I am not an expert.

If one has enough money, one can think about hybrids: Casio mounts Bechstein keyboards, Kawai and Yamaha presumably their own. We go beyond €2500, and in this category I liked a Kawai with a wooden soundboard at the back, I don't remember the model but you won't have difficulty in

...finding it.

No digital or hybrid piano gives me the sensations of a real piano, whether upright, which is why I consider the "identical" keyboard to the grand piano to be a myth. But as an amateur, I probably will never play a grand piano...

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