Exercises To Develop Finger Muscles

I believe the article is in full harmony with the video tutorials and the philosophy suggested by this site. Finger independence is important (in my opinion) up to a certain point, but what needs to be developed is interdependence.

Besides, everyone has their own thoughts, which have been consolidated by their own experiences and the results obtained.

It is not true that "there are no muscles in the fingers"

There are, and they are called "lumbricals"; as the video correctly states, they are not used to flex and extend the fingers (because it is the forearm flexor muscles that do that), but rather the phalanges and - even more importantly - they serve to constantly keep the finger in position with the lever formed by the back of the hand and the forearm.

Keeping the fingers "soft" can be a flaw of the performer, who might be very good in the initial part of the gesture, but then, precisely due to the lack of use of these muscles, the overall work can be undermined or produce an undesirable sound.

I quote Ttw and the video treats shareable considerations, but with a series of clarifications, one of which is that playing the piano does not develop the musculature of the fingers (and the hand) because it already exists. There is little more to add.

In fact, in a normal non-pianist's hand, all the muscles for "pressing keys" are already there; the "strength" is already present (let us remember that to fully depress a key on a modern instrument, one needs to apply a weight no greater than 60 grams... a trifle!).

What is missing, and which constitutes the purpose of a pianist's training, is the ability to use them to the best of their ability and to obtain the maximum result with minimum effort.

In technical terms, this is called "muscular dissociation," that is, the ability to activate only the muscles necessary to perform a certain movement, without simultaneously activating other contiguous muscles that produce a counteracting effect to the first (typical case: forearm contraction during fast passages).

These concepts are explained very well in Sandor's book, "How to Play the Piano."

there are no muscles in the fingers...

the muscles that govern the fingers must be trained, and a lot at that! with this bullshit about 60 grams many people (I'm not referring to rotore who is just one victim) make colossal mistakes: the finger muscles must be powerful, powerful in a physical sense, meaning capable of imparting speed to the keys. And to increase power, you need to train the muscles, it's so trivial. When you feel pain in your forearm, that is lactic acid 90% of the time, and as a result, you feel your fingers struggling to move....more or less like what happens to any athlete....

stuyvesaint wrote:

there are no muscles in the fingers...

http://www.google.it...%3Divnsb&itbs=1

I'm sorry

stuyvesaint wrote:

When you feel pain in your forearm, that is lactic acid 90% of the time and as a result you feel your fingers struggling to move....

Probably instead the pianist needs to go back to doing some basic technique; playing is the most natural thing in the world... there is no effort. The work is one of precision and not of strength. Those who use strength do so because they lack technique... I'm sorry.

stuyvesaint wrote:

When you feel (?) pain in the forearm, that is lactic acid 90% of the time and as a result you feel your fingers struggling to move....

Premised on the fact that I don't feel pain, it seems to me that the classic little ache that many students complain about in the forearm is due to incorrect muscular activity (and of the tendons). A muscle knows how to do only a few things... you know, like the difference between extensors and flexors?

Now, if due to incorrect synchronization two muscles go into conflict pulling the same lever from two different sides... eheh, a little ache in the forearm. In speed, nothing is easier, especially if not equipped with good technique.

Now, starting from the muscles of the hand (thanks Ttw for the clear and objective image), how does the forearm discussion fit in?

Or were you also thinking about the tendons...?

Honestly Stuyvesaint, the content of your post didn't quite reach me 100% ... any enlightenment?

ttw wrote:

http://www.google.it...%3Divnsb&itbs=1

I'm sorry

Instead, the pianist probably needs to go back to practicing some basic technique; playing is the most natural thing in the world... there is no effort involved. The work is one of precision, not strength. Those who use strength do so because they lack technique... I'm sorry.

I'm more sorry that you don't know what you're talking about... It's a problem with this internet-based culture where people think they know things just by looking at pictures.

For free, I'll teach you that the metacarpal bones are not part of the fingers...

I'm sorry that you don't know the difference between power and strength... Look it up on Google, but be careful with pictures, as they can be deceiving!

Frank wrote:

Now, if due muscles go into conflict due to incorrect synchronization, pulling the same lever from two different sides... eheh, a little pain in the forearm. In speed, nothing is easier, especially if not endowed with good technique

... any lights?

You know those Cipollini-style cyclists who struggle in the mountains? Their legs don't turn because they are full of lactic acid.... and it hurts!

stuyvesaint wrote:

there are no muscles in the fingers...

the muscles that govern the fingers must be trained, and a lot at that! with this bullshit about 60 grams many (I am not referring to rotore who is just one victim) make colossal mistakes: the finger muscles must be powerful, powerful in a physical sense, meaning capable of imparting speed to the keys. And to increase power, you need to train the muscles, it's so trivial. When you feel pain in your forearm, that is lactic acid 90% of the time, and as a result you feel your fingers struggling to move....more or less the same thing that happens to any athlete....

And yet Sandor is very convincing. Peace to the soul of good Casella, but I am convinced that a basic knowledge of the anatomy of the hand and arm wouldn't do any harm at all to a pianist of any level: knowing which muscles come into play in pianistic gestures helps make the instructions of teachers more understandable and replicable, instructions which often (not always, it depends on the teacher obviously) border on the esoteric

stuyvesaint wrote:

difference between power and strength...

...interesting topic, how is history?

Rotore wrote:

they border on the
esoteric

Speaking of esotericism… Pires's masterclass:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt44_q73SGs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1aWSCMPTA

What she suggests in terms of phrasing is still very much on point … but her way of teaching seems a bit flawed to me. Look at the student's face

Pires, who otherwise I don't mind, and if this episode is true

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVO26URqC24

has my sincere admiration as well

mmhmm, my ideas have become even more confused.

stuyvesaint wrote:

the muscles that govern the fingers must be trained, and a lot at that! with this nonsense about 60 grams many (I am not referring to rotore who is just one victim) make colossal mistakes: the finger muscles must be powerful, powerful in a physical sense, i.e., capable of imparting speed to the keys. And to increase power, you need to train the muscles, it's so trivial. When you feel pain in your forearm, that is lactic acid 90% of the time and as a result you feel your fingers struggling to move....more or less what happens to any athlete....

The banality of the subject is not something I notice at all, because if these types of discussions exist, there must be a reason.

In the following lines, I will write what I think about some of the points you mentioned.

To increase power in a physical sense (P=L/t), one can increase force (because I know that work L=F*s).

Force is provided by the muscles; greater muscular strength makes it easier to overcome the resistances encountered (only 50-55 g).

Increasing strength through musculature means bringing up all the problems that come with it.

Knowing then that F=m*a, I can make the key reach a strong acceleration (improperly called velocity). Learning to "throw" the fingers without running into tendonitis problems (if I do it correctly).

An additional consideration. To increase power, I said that I can also increase force.

I can make the increase in force happen without stressing the muscles.

Tapping into the F=m*a relationship again, by increasing mass I increase force.

How do I increase mass?? I increase mass by letting even the weight of the arm, shoulder, and so on "fall" onto the keyboard, involving the whole arm without great stiffness.

In my opinion, a pianist is an artist and not an athlete. I don't imagine for a moment that in the morning a pianist wakes up and thinks: how much my arms ache, yesterday I "wrecked" myself with exercises, how wonderful!!

This is just my opinion.

sisifo1987 wrote:

I don't find the topic banal at all

To increase power in a physical sense (P=L/t), one can increase the force (because I know that work L=F*s).

In my opinion, a pianist is an artist and not an athlete. I don't imagine for a moment that in the morning a pianist wakes up and thinks: how much my arms hurt, yesterday I "wrecked myself" with exercises, how wonderful!!

This is just my opinion.

You would find banality by developing the little formulas (those are banal) of physics that you cited...

L=F*s(t) now if P=L/t, isn't it perhaps true that we can write this very banal relationship:

P=F*v(t)

Second banality

Lactic acid is metabolized in a maximum of 30 minutes by our body, therefore it is impossible for your muscles to hurt the next day....

A freebie for you too... take Chopin's Etude Op. 10 No. 1 and have a graduated pianist play it 5 times and you will see their speed will decrease over time because they will be full of lactic acid.

but seriously, don't you find it banal?

Chopin wrote:

Speaking of esotericism… Pires' masterclass:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt44_q73SGs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1aWSCMPTA

What she suggests in terms of phrasing still holds up… but her way of teaching seems a bit flawed to me. Look at the student's face.

Pires, who otherwise I don't mind, and if this episode is true

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVO26URqC24

has my sincere admiration as well

I fully agree that the esotericism of some is irritating. Think of that poor soul who perhaps shelled out 2000 euros to hear someone who is as good at playing as she is bad at teaching.

On the other hand, look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS7G3J7E7aU

This is a true master who doesn't tell you stories about little birds flying by

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt44_q73SGswww.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1aWSCMPTAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVO26URqC24

Open content (youtube)

eh yes, the relationship is correct. I only wanted to say that perhaps using force is not the right way, but rather using the natural levers we find ourselves with.

If I understood correctly, you were saying instead that we must train our fingers to be stronger, so I don't understand what your answer means.

Rethinking the banality of the aforementioned formulas, they do not have a completely obvious origin and do not rigorously describe what happens, but they were put there to give solidity to the discussion.

I am not a graduate and perhaps because of the repertoire I play, it never happened to me (when I played well) that lactic acid would accumulate. At the end of practice, I don't feel heavy like when I go running.

Anyway, thanks for all these free pearls that you distribute from time to time, but if you want to have a constructive discussion, I invite you to show a little more humility.

sisifo1987 wrote:

If I understood correctly, you were saying instead that we must exercise our fingers to be stronger, so I don't understand what your answer means.

More powerful, more powerful, more powerful, not stronger....

How can one remain humble if someone responds without even having read (with a minimum of attention and therefore humility) what I write?

You are so attentive to this fashion/nonsense of understanding which muscles are in the arm and you know nothing about physics. And yet, very little would be enough...

Albert Einstein, if you believe that with two words you can explain concepts without creating any doubt, words that can be poured into others, then you have understood nothing.[quote

name=stuyvesaint' timestamp='1334086388' post='5026]

How can one remain humble if someone responds without even having read (with a minimum of attention and therefore humility) what I write?

Reread what you wrote and think if it means anything! What does it mean?!? You don't remain humble because another user responds without having read what you write (assuming that is true)??

Among the physics treatises you read, find space also to learn what the word humility means and how to be humble.

Until you are able to be so, you will never fully understand problems and you will never be able to explain them in a way that makes yourself understood.

Clearly it has been seen that we have different thoughts not only on issues addressed on this forum, and therefore I would say let's end it here. I am sorry to soil the pages with comments inappropriate to the discussion. GOODBYE!!

sisifo1987 wrote:

Albert Einstein, if you believe that with two words you can explain concepts without creating any doubt, words that can be poured over

You are right, I have poured over

Prosit!