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Experiences Of Some Competitions... So Many Different Rules!

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gpr

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Opening post by gpr

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Hello to all composers, certainly younger and more talented than me!

So, after a "stasis" lasting several years, I resumed writing music a few years ago, and I also started studying with a teacher again. I am not interested in taking exams (at my age, having or not having a composition diploma doesn't change my life...), but only in studying for myself, and who knows, maybe gaining some small satisfaction from it. My style is still largely "classical," I would also add "imitative," because for a long time my only training was the self-taught study of the works of the greats of the past (Beethoven above all, but I would also add other great masters of the 1800s).

And let's come to my (few) experiences participating in competitions. Aside from the fact that I can now only participate in competitions for which there is no age limit, usually the biggest problem is staying on schedule and completing everything in time for shipping (!); up to today, the only small recognition has been a fourth place in the "Valeria Martina" competition in 2010, where I presented a classical sonata for cello and piano. On other occasions, I have presented works that I believed were even better, but they were not taken into consideration. For example, between November '11 and January '12, despite an intense period of work, I dedicated quite a bit of time to composing a piece for piano and winds which I then sent for participation in the "Biennale Koper" competition; on this occasion, I "challenged myself" not to do something too classical, in short, to have a bit more courage, if at least from a harmonic point of view (although I remain far from certain extremely dissonant modern languages that are also, in my opinion, devoid of rhythmic sense, at least if we understand it in the "common" meaning). Since six works were to be selected for the final concert (which in reality turned out to be seven), I was hoping a little... I would have been happy even to end up as the last of the "nominees" in the final. The result? Nothing...

This naturally does not deter me from participating in other competitions (in fact, I have already sent a piece for piano to a competition in Reggio Calabria); however, I realize that it is impossible to know what the jury expects... sometimes a nice piece without any stylistic innovation is at least appreciated, other times a composer might be convinced they have done a good little job, but if they hit a commission that turns up its nose at every consonant chord or at rhythms that are too "regular," it's all over. Or according to your experience, are there nonetheless some "objective" parameters to respect? Does the jury usually set rules, or does everyone judge as they see fit? Is there any aspect that is nonetheless "appreciated," or is everything left to the taste and experiences of the jurors?

Ciao a tutti

Gino (Rome)

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Reply 2 by stradivari

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... contemporaneity is appreciated and certainly those that I call the false "moderns" are not very successful.

By false moderns, I mean those who, anchored to an outdated style, put in some "strangeness" to seem more up-to-date ... but it's immediately obvious that it's all a bluff.

Starting from one's own described and coherent system is always a good weapon.

The issue is complex because many dynamics come into play; certainly, participating in the awards really helps to understand the desired style, especially if the commission does not change the following year.

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Reply 3 by Natan

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gpr wrote:

Or according to your experience, are there nonetheless some "objective" parameters to respect? Does the jury usually set rules, or does everyone judge as they see fit? Is there any aspect that is nonetheless "appreciated," or is everything left to the taste and experiences of the jurors?

A significant problem. For starters, the names of the jurors are known, which helps in understanding the trend of that specific competition. If you know how they write and what the jury members might think... it's a quick task.

On average, crazy things are presented and, barring rare exceptions, a contemporary composer creates their own frame of reference... it may or may not be liked, but this must be evident.

If you still sound like you have a classical writing style, you will have a hard time; I read that you aren't interested in the degree, but you should still complete the full course of study... usually, advanced courses help to understand many things.

If the field doesn't interest you, give up on competitions, because in 90% of cases an "imitative" style is NOT appreciated (rightly so), whereas it finds a perfect place in a teaching context.

No offense, but if someone were to write today like Beethoven... they would be a laughingstock.

Have you ever heard any work presented at the Biennale? ... we live in these times.

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Reply 4 by Frank

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Dear Gino, the problem you raise applies to all cases where one finds oneself taking an exam. How will the person to whom I present my work evaluate me?

It was also true for private students when they had to take the exam at the conservatory and didn't know what the commission thought.

And deep down, the problem is always stylistic.

It's a pity that in a competition you don't have the possibility to speak with a juror and understand the desiderata, something you could instead do with the conservatory by contacting the teacher on duty.

In reality, it would also be quite degrading for an artist to change their own language to please jury X or Y, and I think this is one of the reasons why competitions are oriented toward the younger generation. A seasoned, established composer with their own poetics would hardly say things they don't believe... don't you think?

If you have already chosen how to express yourself... you can only give up on competitions; if you haven't chosen... it's a pity to be influenced by something ephemeral.

I have had the (un)fortune of seeing firsthand how some competitions work; most of the evaluation (the classic screening) is done practically by eye... rather than by ear.

The composer's professionalism is evaluated, their system of conceiving a work, how they realize it... it is not an evaluation of taste; what comes out might even be rubbish, but if it isn't dressed and packaged professionally, it probably won't even be considered.

By 'considered,' I mean that it doesn't even reach the point where someone sits down to try to understand how your piece works and makes a merit-based evaluation.

And it is also right; someone who wants to make a name for themselves must show 360° professionalism; today, strictly musical content might not be enough.

But as always, there are exceptions; I would take the competition as an incentive to write—if someone wins, they also bring home some good money, otherwise, oh well.

Clearly, one has to pay the registration fee, will never know what didn't work in their piece, etc.; in the long run, it can be demoralizing... but one seeks it out too; you can't only aim for that in life. It is a byproduct of a certain existential phase.

At this point, if someone really wants stimuli and likes tangible comparison... the workshops we organize are better... besides, you know very well how they work.

I don't know if I have answered; probably due to age limits, you won't be able to enter the competition (the subject of the workshop):

http://www.pianoconc...da-camera-2012/

You will see that if someone participates... they won't have many stylistic scruples; one also writes to earn money, and 5,000 euros is a good incentive.

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Reply 5 by Ludovica

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... I have never been interested in competitions, I have always seen them as an environment with somewhat strange dynamics and perhaps even not very "real.".

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Reply 6 by CromaDiBrera

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Sorry, I have never thought about doing them and I would have two questions: how much does it cost, on average, to participate? And in what way can one be promptly updated on the various calls for applications?

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Reply 7 by WAM

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CromaDiBrera wrote:

Sorry, I have never thought about doing them and I would have two questions: how much does it cost, on average, to participate? And in what way can one be promptly updated on the various calls for applications?

On average from 50 to 100 euros.

I myself have proposed a topic dedicated to competitions in the section; it has been a while since I proposed any news, but I take the commitment to make some good reports by the weekend at the latest.

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Reply 9 by geppino12575

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Nola

I have entered several competitions with fairly satisfying results: one audience award (750 euros, free entry competition), two second places, one third place, and two non-placements. Certainly, contemporaneity is appreciated, as others have also mentioned before me; writing complexity is more appreciated than "minimalism," and the search for effect, especially timbral effect, is also appreciated. These concepts are sometimes pushed to extremes in pieces where it becomes difficult to recognize the same elements of music; in practice, the pieces become mere effect-driven experimentation. Besides, for some competitions, you can even listen to the finalist pieces online, so you can get an idea of what I am saying—for example, from the various editions of the August 2nd competition in Bologna, which is also one of the most important in Italy.

You participate in a competition knowing well that you will not win it; composition competitions are made to be lost... this is the starting point: extremely low or even zero expectations; everything that comes after is a bonus.

You participate to practice writing, to learn to respect deadlines or indications regarding instrumentation, duration, text, and musical theme; I avoid competitions with very large prizes because if the prizes are large, it is easy that there are also underhanded dealings involved. Small prizes and small entry fees, or even free competitions—this is my philosophy.

If, on the other hand, one feels the need to share their works with others, to ensure that someone can analyze and read them, then there are other systems: publishers, seeking real performers, various forums and social networks; in short, from this point of view, there is an embarrassment of riches...

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Reply 10 by AbateFaria

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I find them interesting but I would participate without the ambition to win, perhaps because I feel inadequate, perhaps because I don't feel like orienting myself towards pieces based on special effects... for now I have no experience, but I have always been conflicted on the subject.

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Reply 11 by gpr

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Roma

I am reopening the old topic to tell you about a recent piano composition competition organized by the "De Musica" association (Savona). The deadline was September 30th; I submitted a prelude (to be honest, not a new one, meaning it wasn't written "specifically" for participation in the competition). The organizers committed to announcing the results by October 31st, but surprisingly, the response arrived much sooner: a piece by Alessandro Martire won (never heard of him before, though the piece is already on YouTube), while my composition was "noted for artistic merit."

Meanwhile, the Reggio Calabria competition, which had already been postponed from June to September, has been further postponed due to organizational problems.

For the future... there would be some interesting competitions... but who knows if I will manage to participate, with my various problems and commitments!

Ciao

Gino

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Reply 12 by Oracolo

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317

Bravo Gino for the artistic merit.

I will take this opportunity to ask what difference you think there is between the Jury prize and the Critics' prize.

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Reply 13 by Natan

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239
Oracolo wrote:

Well done Gino for the artistic merit.

I will take this opportunity to ask what difference you think there is between the Jury prize and the Critics' prize.

In my opinion, the jury is the one that decides who gets the prize (in money), while the critics' prize is a "consolation" prize (from an economic point of view) and is awarded by Musicologists/Journalists... at least, on a couple of occasions, I thought I had understood it that way...

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Reply 14 by gpr

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Roma

Here I am again, always with problems related to composition and eventual participation in competitions. To tell the truth, I'm getting a bit tired... and I don't know if I will try to participate again in the future, because the result is always the same, or almost.

I was saying in a previous post about the Savona competition, organized by the "De Musica" association: the thing had a follow-up, in the sense that some composers were asked to participate in the publication of a piano anthology. The only constraint: the piece had to fit on two pages. I don't know what kind of screening was done... anyway, it is evident that the published pieces are very different from each other, both in style and technical difficulty (but each has its own interest). The association that produced this publication committed to sending a copy to many music schools scattered across the national territory.

In the meantime, there was another rather serious commitment, namely the composition of a quartet for the "Florence String Quartet Call for Scores" competition (I had also mentioned this in another post). From a quick telephone contact with one of the organizers, I understood that they were interested in something "modern," so a piece of a classical character (which remains the language most suitable to me... damn, I should have been born 150 years earlier!) would have had no chance. I then set myself the goal of writing something very far from tonality: not "random" dissonances, but rather an absence of tonal references. The structure of the piece is classical (four beats, in each of which classical patterns can be discerned), the rhythm is all in all quite regular, and in some way there are also recurring "melodic" elements, but certainly compared to many of my previous pieces it represented a great step forward. The competition was a great success (112 works submitted, well beyond the expectations of the organizers themselves); the commission was supposed to select three works to be performed publicly in Florence on September 8th, but in reality, five were eventually chosen. For me, needless to say, the result is always the same...

On the website of the association that organized the competition www.artesitalia.it, one can find the list of selected and noted compositions, along with a statement from the jury. The video of the concert (unfortunately of low quality, but the audio sounds good) can be found on the site www.pinkmonkey.tv; therefore, anyone, if they have the patience, can hear with their own ears what the jury has selected. And here opens a very complicated discussion, on which I would also like to know the opinion of other forum members.

We know that today it is impossible to speak of "ONE" musical language: granted, there have been different styles in all eras, but what has happened from the end of the nineteenth century onwards reminds me of the biblical story of the Tower of Babel: suddenly languages are confused, and no one can understand what the other is saying anymore. Well, maybe it's not quite like that in an absolute sense: it is true, however, that during the twentieth century many different languages were experimented with, evolution was very rapid (with the consequent setting aside of some "innovative" languages), and at the current moment it is impossible to establish "what contemporary music is," precisely because of the multiplicity of languages, which are not always mutually intelligible.

Coming then to the competition: first of all, I would have liked the organizers to be clearer about the "type" of music they expected. In some cases, the calls clearly state that "there are no stylistic exclusions," in other cases it is clear that a certain type of language is expected (if, for example, it is mandatory to use electronics, I can understand on my own that a classical piece cannot be taken into consideration, even if it were well written). But let's look at which pieces are actually selected. Perhaps it is I who am hard of hearing and do not understand today's language (languages). But when I see all musical elements (rhythm, melody, harmony) being eliminated in favor of pure and simple "sound effects"... well, I am left a bit perplexed!

The paradoxical thing is that I went back to studying composition also to escape the traps of self-teaching, and to know (I say "know," not necessarily "practice") more modern languages. After several years of participating in competitions of various kinds, the only (modest) recognitions have been fourth place in a 2010 competition in Puglia and the mention for artistic merit in Savona, which was followed by the publication of the anthology. In other words, the most appreciated pieces were precisely those of classical style, even those written when I was working solely as a self-taught person, basing myself only on an instinctive analysis of the

musical literature!

With this, I do not want to conclude that it wasn't useful for me to start studying composition again a little... if nothing else, today I have a greater awareness of certain technical and musical issues (and I regret not deciding to do so sooner). However, the perplexity remains, and in my opinion, it is a discussion that goes beyond the selection criteria of competitions. What I mean is: how should one regulate oneself if one wishes to propose one's own music (assuming one has the channels to do so, and we know that even for the best professionals it is very difficult)? Should we regulate ourselves based on what the public "probably" enjoys? A very dangerous discussion: we know that certain minimalists (I don't even want to mention names) fill stadiums with cheap little tunes passing them off as "contemporary classical" (!), and from the height of the money earned, they even allow themselves to say that the world of classical music is sick, that young people do not love Beethoven because he has no rhythm, and other nonsense that isn't even worth reporting. The fact is that unfortunately the "confusion of languages" I mentioned before, and the substantial "distance" of contemporary music from the sensibility of the public, make even these negative phenomena possible. But then, for whom should we write? Only for musicians, assuming our language is similar to theirs so that they may appreciate it? Or is it better if we don't care and compose for ourselves?

A warm greeting to you all

Gino (from Rome)

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Reply 15 by Marzapane

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A composer is such if they are performed, have an audience, and are commissioned works. The world is beautiful because it is varied, in the sense that one can achieve these 3 results without writing for industry insiders (see the various biennials) and without selling out to the general public (see the various SanRemo).

As for the rest, I wouldn't know; competitions, as already stated by others previously, are just the most useless and expensive thing on earth... they depend on too many factors that are not "predictable" and one has to make too many compromises.

"Composing for ourselves"? I would say composing without denying oneself for the niche that interests us most; after all, Ivan Fedele will have a smaller audience than Einaudi but can make a living with his profession, so I think he is satisfied without compromising himself. The same goes for others like Lorenzini, who are somewhat the opposite of Fedele in terms of genre... but they live off composition.

I don't know if this is an answer... but they are certainly elements for reflection

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Reply 17 by RedScharlach

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gpr wrote:

Here I am again, still with problems relating to composition and potential participation in competitions.

Dear Gino, I have participated in many competitions, and I even won some... I have only one piece of advice for you. Try to evaluate who is on the jury. Not to adapt your writing style to the tastes of the jury (heaven forbid!) but to understand if they are musicians who can seriously and coherently evaluate your work. Nowadays, information about everything and everyone can be found on the internet, so it is not particularly difficult...

Ah, another piece of advice! Try competitions outside of Italy.

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Reply 18 by gpr

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Roma
RedScharlach wrote:

[...]

Ah, another piece of advice! Try competitions outside of Italy.

I tried... at the beginning of 2012 I laboriously completed a piece for piano and winds for the "Biennale Koper" competition. Even here I tried to make a "stylistic effort," but it wasn't enough. Then I heard the finalist pieces... anyway, let's forget about it!

Anyway, thank you all for the answers.

Gino

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Reply 19 by RedScharlach

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I saw the jury for the Biennale Koper... If Vinko Globokar and Fabio Nieder are there, and your orientations are (to simplify) neo-romantic, I definitely suggest you look elsewhere! Opportunities exist, if one is capable of seeking them. Do not distort your writing to try to be "contemporary"; you run the risk of packaging something artificial that a jury with even a minimum level of competence will immediately unmask.

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Reply 20 by AbateFaria

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RedScharlach wrote:

i suggest nothing less than looking elsewhere! The opportunities are there, if one is capable of searching for them.

By any chance RedScharlach, do you have any tips? Thanks in advance

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