Finally Graduated

It's a shame that most of the big-shot professors roaming around the conservatory only have a middle school education, because once upon a time only artistic credentials mattered.

Furthermore, I think that at a European level, old diplomas (even if equated to a second-level diploma) are worth nothing

... furthermore, there remains the mockery for those who completed the two-year period, obtaining only a duplicate of their, at this point, degree

And, if I understood correctly, a mockery within a mockery: the title of those who finish courses under exhaustion after the publication of the law WILL NOT be equivalent to a master's degree. I really didn't understand this one.

Think about how unlucky it is, now they will be able to call me as an external commissioner ... goodbye holidays...

I take the liberty of saying that a conservatory big shot who knows how to play their instrument well is better than an illiterate or almost illiterate graduate (an example? http://www.haisentit...bocciati/20077/ ).

And then, if you permit me, they are urban legends by now: browse the curricula (and in many cases the ages), a good part of them are graduates or at least diploma holders.

Regarding the 'equivalence' sanctioned by the stability law, for now I suspend judgment (anyway, it is not bad to have 4 degrees under your belt) pending what is provided by articles 106 and 107:

106. The experimental titles obtained at the end of paths validated by the Ministry of Education, University and Research in the institutions referred to in paragraph 102, by the date referred to in paragraph 105, are equivalent to first and second-level academic diplomas, according to a correspondence table determined by decree of the Minister of Education, University and Research based on the same principles as in paragraphs 102 and 103, to be issued within three months from the date of entry into force of this law.

107. The final diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in paragraph 102, at the end of the training paths of the previous system, obtained before the entry into force of this law and together with possession of a high school diploma, are equivalent to second-level academic diplomas according to a correspondence table determined by decree of the Minister of Education, University and Research based on the same principles as in paragraphs 102 and 103, to be issued within three months from the date of entry into force of this law.

Art. 103 is nonetheless very clear:

103. For the exclusive purpose of admission to public competitions for access to functional qualifications of public employment for which possession is prescribed, second-level academic diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in paragraph 102 are equivalent to master's degree titles issued by universities belonging to the following classes of master's degree courses as per the ministerial decree of March 16, 2007, published in the Official Gazette no. 155 of July 9, 2007:

a) Class LM-12 (Design) for diplomas issued by the Higher Institutes for artistic industries, as well as by the Academies of fine arts within the scope of the 'Artistic design for enterprise' school, referred to in Table A of the Decree of the President of the Republic of July 8, 2005, no. 212;

b. Class LM-45 (Musicology and musical heritage) for diplomas issued by Conservatories of music, the National Academy of Dance, and equivalent musical institutes;

c) Class LM-65 (Performing arts sciences and multimedia production) for diplomas issued by the National Academy of dramatic art, as well as by the Academies of fine arts within the scope of the 'Scenography' and 'New technologies of art' schools, referred to in Table A of the Decree of the President of the Republic of July 8, 2005, no. 212;

d) Class LM-89 (Art history) for diplomas issued by the Academies of fine arts within the scope of all other schools referred to in Table A of the Decree of the President of the Republic of July 8, 2005, no. 212, with the exception of those mentioned in letters a) and c)

So, a degree yes, but with many limits...

Rather interesting is 104 (even if Thallo will not agree ):

104. Second-level academic diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in article 2, paragraph 1, of law December 21, 1999, no. 508 constitute a title for access to admission competitions for doctoral research courses or specialization courses in the artistic, musical, art-historical or historical-musical field established by universities.

that article would be interesting if some AFAM [Higher Education in Music, Arts and Dance] had the courage to OPEN a doctorate! Let's make an Ircam 2, worthy of the name, and instead of making it a job for someone, let's make it an opportunity for training. But even things like higher education schools should actually be structured like doctorates. YOU propose a path, an objective, and in the end you must prove that you have seriously achieved it.

As for the rest... doctoral committees evaluate the curriculum. There might be exceptions, but in my opinion, just by gut feeling, I think any committee faced with a candidate who only has an AFAM degree would give a very low evaluation of their educational curriculum...

But what about those who do a three-year degree + two-year master's, do they have different treatments? Otherwise I don't understand the ....

Zedef wrote:

So a degree yes but with many limits...

According to the amendments:

- Three-year course = Level I

- Two-year course = Level II

- Old system + high school diploma = Level II (in the old system, a three-year course is therefore not provided, much like the pre-reform university).

But will those thousands of students who, after the old system diploma, completed a two-year course thinking or being convinced (perhaps by others) that it was necessary, now file a class action against the Ministry or the Conservatories asking for reimbursement plus expenses incurred plus moral damages etc..? Shall we aim for 5-10 thousand euros each? Who would pay if they were right?

And those who were convinced (by force) to leave the old system to move to the three-year course, which they would now have (perhaps..) completed with a Level II instead of having to endure an expensive two-year course in terms of both money and effort? Ah, currently, on the part of the USP (formerly Provveditorato) of my city, those who only had the three-year course have not been included in the teaching rankings (only old system or two-year course).

Confusion has reigned supreme for 13 years among those who promoted a reform regardless of the consequences. For me, they will find an agreement to also evaluate the post-old system two-year course; if nothing else, they will give a few more points in the rankings and with this they will cover their **** against potential appeals.

I recall, however, that at the Chamber (VII commission), they are/were finishing the approval of other amendments regarding 1693/4822 (the Bill on Conservatories and Academies): there will probably be more news in 2013.

Thank you Zedef for the punctual and precise interventions.

Zedef wrote:

there will probably be other news in 2013.

What can I say... keep us updated

Of course.

I would add that those who graduate this year with the v.o. [old system] do NOT obtain a degree, since the equivalence only applies to those who obtained the qualification by 31.12.2012.

so who finishes, as in my case, and graduates after the 10th year of the old system conservatory in June 2013, what do they get? only equivalence to a Level I degree?

PS: can one from the regular course enter the two-year specialization period?

obviously with the old system diploma you can access the two-year period (if you also have a high school diploma).

But considering the reactions to this regulation, I think that sooner or later the TAR (Regional Administrative Court) will rule and grant equivalence even to those who graduated "late" like you.

Speaking of equivalences, anyway, it doesn't matter all that much... I mean, an old system diploma is an old system diploma, it leads to the same things a specialist degree leads to, even without a specific equivalence

Why is it that every time I start a conversation with someone who seems expert or up-to-date on the facts, saying that those in possession of a traditional diploma are as if they had a second-level academic degree... this person responds to me that it's not yet certain?

I mean, has there been or has there not been this blessed equivalence?

What document can I "slam" under their nose?

No one, as the table provided for by art. 107 has not yet been released

107. Final diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in paragraph 102, at the end of the training courses under the previous system, obtained before the entry into force of this law and together with possession of a high school diploma, are equivalent to second-level academic diplomas according to a correspondence table determined by decree of the Minister of Education, University and Research based on the same principles as referred to in paragraphs 102 and 103, to be issued within three months from the date of entry into force of this law.

while the one relating to 106 has been released (DM 243 of March 28, 2013: http://attiministeriali.miur.it/anno-2013/marzo/dm-28032013-%282%29.aspx ):

106. Experimental qualifications obtained at the end of courses validated by the Ministry of Education, University and Research in the institutions referred to in paragraph 102, by the date referred to in paragraph 105, are equivalent to first and second-level academic diplomas, according to a correspondence table determined by decree of the Minister of Education, University and Research based on the same principles as referred to in paragraphs 102 and 103, to be issued within three months from the date of entry into force of this law.

In any case, the other one will also be released shortly.

Thanks Zedef... sooner or later it will end...?! ...