Find the difference!

Original protest! I perfectly agree. I don't know if you know that the Rome Symphony Orchestra managed by the Arts Academy has also closed. A shame!

Here is the link http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2014/05/08/lorchestra-sinfonica-di-roma-chiude-abbiamo-finito-i-soldi-dobbiamo-licenziare/978310/

The part of the Rome Opera Orchestra that plays at the Caracalla Festival (because it is a part, not all of it) went on strike a few days ago for the premiere of Bohème, and more or less for the same reasons. Alas, there is little hope that things will change, and it is not the fault of politics, at least in my opinion. It is "also" the fault of politics...

With the cost of one Sanremo evening, an orchestra could live for a year!!!!! Welcome these courageous protests!!!!! Thank you Thallo

🙁

"Politics" only takes advantage of it when invitations to premieres and similar things are forwarded, but deep down I think few people are truly interested.

I am posting the link to an article by Lidia Ravera, councilor for culture and sport of the Lazio Region...

http://www.huffingtonpost.it/lidia-ravera/se-litalia-non-riparte-da_b_5601972.html?utm_hp_ref=italy

l'articolo parla dello sciopero a Caracalla e dimostra come i politici non abbiano le competenze specifiche per affrontare simili problemi. L'economia della musica è un campo complicato, le politiche migliori scontentano quasi sempre qualcuno, ma bisognerebbe avere il coraggio in questo momento storico di dire che il mercato musicale italiano, l'organizzazione delle orchestre, dei teatri, dei festival sono in gran parte da riformulare. Si dice sempre che all'estero le cose funzionano in modo diverso. Questo ha portato da anni una conseguenza lampante: attualmente nel resto del mondo la musica è suonata meglio e porta profitto. Ci sono eccezioni, ovvio, ma se escludiamo il campo del solismo, che è sempre un mondo a sé, la qualità di un'orchestra o di un teatro si misurano anche rispetto a fattori poco legati alla qualità dei singoli: la stabilità di chi suona dentro, il numero di prove, la qualità dei direttori assunti, l'offerta formativa delle istituzioni, l'offerta musicale della città.

Non so, l'Orchestra del Carlo Felice di Genova che possibilità ha di essere "migliore" dell'orchestra di una città come non so, Lipsia? La qualità di quest'orchestra non dipende solo dalle sovvenzioni pubbliche, dipende da quanto i propri orchestrali vanno a sentire altri concerti, da cosa offre culturalmente Genova come città, dai direttori che la dirigono. E, dico io, parliamo dell'Orchestra di Battistoni... io c'ho cantato diretto da Battistoni e vi posso dire che non vedo proprio come sotto la sua bacchetta qualsivoglia orchestra possa migliorare. Per la serie "il numero di prove", Battistoni ha saltato due prove su 5 organizzate l'anno scorso per l'opera in cui ho cantato con lui. Due su Cinque! Ora, se un Teatro come quello di Genova, che negli ultimi dieci anni ha avuto buchi di bilancio impressionanti, ha fatto concorsi senza poi assumere i vincitori, ha avuto una programmazione limitata e secondaria investe su uno come Battistoni, che è un uomo immagine e basta, cosa ci si può aspettare dalla qualità culturale del sistema?

Io sono tranchant e sono un po' capitalistico. I teatri vanno chiusi. E poi riaperti. Le orchestre stabili dovrebbero avere programmazioni diverse, molto più varie, che diminuiscano il fattore "evento" (che ne so, le tourné o il mega solista) e aumentino la pratica del repertorio. Suonare tanto per suonare sempre meglio. E aprire sempre alle scuole. Si dovrebbero prendere accordi con i conservatori vicini, offrendo agli studenti di guardare tutte le prove, anche le sezioni. Sembra sempre assurdo, ma se TUTTI gli studenti dei conservatori italiani andassero a vedere i concerti della propria città, i teatri non avrebbero problemi di sbigliettamento. Ma, non si sa perché, i direttori dei conservatori odiano e sono odiati dai direttori dei teatri. Se nel nostro paese i musicisti non vanno ad ascoltare musica, cosa pretendiamo dagli altri? E cosa pretendiamo dalla politica?

Dal mio punto di vista, se non ricostruiamo il pubblico, se non usciamo dalla "crisi" mentale ed economica, non riusciremo a fare nulla per la cultura musicale.

thallo wrote:

From my point of view, if we do not rebuild the audience, if we do not emerge from the mental and economic "crisis," we will not be able to do anything for musical culture.

Of course Tallo, but politics has contributed massively to entering this mental and economic "crisis"; while it is true that citizens can roll up their sleeves, it is only right that those who are paid for this at least strive to mitigate the part of the damage done...

If you don't have money to buy bread, you will have even less to buy a theater ticket. The more money you have left over, the more you will spend... even this is capitalism.

TheSimon wrote:

Original protest! I perfectly agree. I don't know if you know that even the Rome Symphony Orchestra managed by the Arts Academy has closed. A shame!

Here is the link http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2014/05/08/lorchestra-sinfonica-di-roma-chiude-abbiamo-finito-i-soldi-dobbiamo-licenziare/978310/

Avevo sentito che la Arts Academy dopo aver cambiato sede, stava chiudendo i battenti, ma questo 2/3 anni fa.

In fact, I find hallo's observations interesting and very accurate. I have nothing to add, except to further commit politicians toward culture and particularly toward cultural institutions (orchestras, opera houses... etc). We know well that we must start from this, don't we?!!!!!!

Dino wrote:

Of course Tallo, but politics has contributed massively to entering the mental and economic "crisis"; if it is true that citizens can roll up their sleeves, it is only right that those who are paid for this at least strive to mitigate the part of the damage done...

If you don't have money to buy bread, you will have even less to buy a theater ticket. The more money you have left over, the more you will spend... this too is capitalism.

But what are these responsibilities of politics? Premising that if we speak of "responsibility" in a serious way, we should be able to trace them unequivocally.

I think that politics has above all secondary, indirect, let's say omissive responsibilities. By instinct, I would say 1) failed school reforms 2) cultural institution reforms that were not quite right 3) a certain distance in image from the world of culture. These, which are the most frequent shortcomings, however, are not "the cause" of the problem. We must strive to be honest, 20 years of Berlusconi DID NOT cause the death of classical music. On the contrary, from experience I assure you that the classical and opera audience tends to be right-wing, conservative, wealthy; it has little to do with the crisis, especially the economic crisis.

The main problem of politics, in my view, is a specific, technical problem: certain "managers" have been identified at various levels who have made mistakes. As things stand in Italy, the music market is managed by perfect "parvenus," people who found themselves in the right place at the right time, and who learned what they know only from practice. And this is not good. We are still living off the myth of "that guy knows everyone," "he comes to the theater every night," "his appointment would bring prestige"... at the head of institutions there should not be 1) politicians 2) administrators 3) philosophers 4) fixers 5) MUSICISTS. There must be culture managers, who unfortunately do not exist in Italy because we do not have serious degree courses to train them. This is a direct responsibility, in my view, but which, again, is not the main cause of anything, because culture managers don't even exist in Korea, but there, culture sells...

What is missing in Italy is the market. Simply. The phrase "those who have no bread do not go to concerts" is correct, but the point is that today those who have no bread are relatively few, and everyone else doesn't care about music anyway. I am not good with numbers, but on average an Italian-style Theater (that is, like La Scala) has 2000 seats. Lombardy is full of theaters, so the problem is less impressive, but imagine Puglia, where there is practically only one important theater, the Petruzzelli in Bari, which virtually absorbs the audience from Molise and Basilicata as well. All of Puglia has 4 million inhabitants... how is it possible that the Petruzzelli doesn't always sell out?? For a prominent theater, there are 5 conservatories in Puglia. FIVE. I don't know the number of enrollees, but let's say there are 500 per conservatory (which is very few), that makes 2500 music students who find the money to buy sheet music, instruments, useless complementary harmony books, reeds, pads, lubricants, and teflon powder ( :-) ). Is it possible that these people don't have 20 euros every two months to see a concert??

It is possible. And that is the state of the market in Italy. And it is the real reason for the problems of art music here.

thallo wrote:

I don't know the number of members, but let's say there are 500 per conservatory (which is very few), that makes 2500 music students who find the money to buy sheet music, instruments, useless complementary harmony books, reeds, pads, lubricants and teflon powder ( :-) ). Is it possible that these people don't have 20 euros every two months to go see a concert??

I do not blame Dino's statement; some of my stupid impressions:

- it has been years since I bought sheet music (there is IMSLP)

- it has been years since I bought CDs (there is youtube)

- it has been years since I bought manuals (you can find everything on the web)

Musical instruments and compendiums are the necessity, the minimum. Families strangled by the economic problems of the country (and not just in the music sector)... caused by whom? In my opinion, a concert is seen, especially by parents (who have to come up with the money), as an "amusement". I am perfectly aware that it is instead necessary to listen to live music, but even for this reason, on one hand the student doesn't ask and on the other hand maybe they are told by mom and dad: "It's really necessary"? Then you go on YouTube... and it all passes.

In my opinion Thallo has some reasons, but it is a simplified discussion and a bit distant from the concrete reality of a 13/15 (but also 20, if you don't work you aren't autonomous) year old who already has to ask for a lot of money to study... and then "also" wants to go to the concert. Maybe art children will save themselves.

Oracolo wrote:

In my opinion, the concert is seen, especially by parents (who have to shell out the money), as a "distraction". I am perfectly aware that listening to live music is necessary, but even for this reason, on one hand, the student doesn't ask, and on the other hand, maybe they hear from mom and dad: "It's really necessary"? Then you go on YouTube... and it all passes.

Because, shouldn't a minor be accompanied? Therefore, even a paying parent. So I say, why can't accompanied minors enter for free (including the companion, who might not care at all about art music) and perhaps a policy more geared towards culture would fund this type of initiative?

I understand Thallo's point, but I remember that he himself, on the occasion of the discussion "At the end of the concert", wrote

thallo wrote:

That being said, I haven't been to a concert in ages. I feel disgusted with myself... and this discussion makes me feel deathly guilty.

Absolutely not to dwell on the past, but as Oracolo did, it might be useful to dig deeper to understand the reasons.

For example, it happens to me that since I have to deal with music for work from morning till night, I don't completely feel like going to the theater; like everyone, I would like to disconnect once a workday is finished. It's like asking a soccer player to go watch a match in his free time, or asking a mailman to deliver letters on Sunday, etc. Obviously, I am speaking in general... but the theater audience shouldn't consist of industry professionals, and least of all should this be a lever or a lifeline. And then the professionals must be the protagonists of the "show" and not the spectators. Furthermore, to increase professionalism, as Oracolo says, it is correct that there is listening and live listening... but let's try to be objective.

I consider myself out of the market because I am officially "unemployed"... but I manage to see my 10-12 annual concerts :-) but I certainly spend more on buying books, that is true; very often I discriminate against live music even before going to hear it... the argument about the concert being seen as leisure is spot on, however, and it is part of the problem. There are pastimes that cost a lot but are considered essential. People always talk about cell phones, but we could talk about pizza with friends, a night at the disco, or a ticket to a water park. I don't want to be preachy, I don't want to say "music is more useful," but it is a fact that other pastimes are appreciated more, meaning a higher price is given to them, they are considered worthy of greater spending. As things stand, this is the Italian situation, and orchestras and theaters should resign themselves, desperately trying to make their product appealing. But we cannot go against the market. I don't think the concert itself is a good that the state must protect by putting subsidies and money into the related industry (more than what there already is). At this point, I prefer fewer concerts and more money in schools, because that is how the market is recreated.

I'm stepping in on tiptoe, do you think Thallo (or others interested in the discussion), in a globalized world, it's possible that a "local" market like the Italian one is truly so different? You just have to visit some foreign sites to see how much, more or less legally, it is possible to download.

Curiosity, what does Blockbuster say to you?

For the younger ones:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster

thallo wrote:

I prefer fewer concerts and more money in the school, at this point, because that is how the market is recreated.

We will see in a few days what Giannini has in store for us regarding the guidelines of the "historic" school reform. General chatter tells of "science fiction" things. Mah?!

Frank, theatrical logic is still very localized. At least according to my experience. During my recent and brief experience in Regensburg, Germany, I saw that the opera house of that small town, which is not particularly prominent, had staged Wagner's "Die Feen", an extremely rare opera, and had performed more than 20 shows of The Magic Flute within two months. I mean, in September I am doing Don Giovanni with direction by Graham Vick, one of the greatest living opera directors, and we are doing two performances in Como?! A city where they probably have enough money to enslave half of Regensburg...

Germany is traditionally an unequal comparison; there are many theaters, many orchestras, and a widespread great musical culture (it used to be like that in Italy too...). But there are similar situations in France, Belgium, Holland, all over Northern Europe. I often use Iceland as an example, which is a state of 320,000 inhabitants, yet has orchestras, soloists, and chamber groups all at an international level. I believe there are at least a dozen high-level opera singers, all Icelandic... precisely because we are in the era of globalization, for a small state like that to emerge, it needs a very high widespread cultural level. Which often coincides with a good cultural market.

The recording industry crisis is present everywhere, it's true. But there are strategies to prevent this from impacting live performances. We always hope that these strategies are adopted by politicians, but the right figures are the commercial ones, those who analyze the market and understand its logic. And who, incredibly, are completely foreign to classical music in Italy. If we exclude Allevi, who is not in crisis at all.

thallo wrote:

And what, incredibly, are completely foreign to classical music in Italy. If we exclude Allevi, who is not in crisis at all.

...um, in fact Allevi is not classical. Pausini doesn't seem to be in crisis either

In fact, the pop world knows how to move, including live shows.

I'm throwing it out there with a "provocation" that probably everyone or almost everyone has thought about, but hasn't expressed: are there "pastimes" that take precedence over others because, after all, they are easier to manage? There is a (for me) substantial difference between going out to see a film (which in some cases presents itself as a complex work) and attending a music concert as it is understood in a serious context. A film can be understood despite its complexity and without having to study the subject, the screenplay, and follow the filming. A musical work is something else entirely; something always escapes those who (like me, for that matter) do not have the necessary means to decode and consequently fully understand the meaning, not to mention the language of the latter. It is a feeling I have.

I forgot, it's always about creativity, but music seems (in my opinion) to almost "force" those who listen to it to be prepared, both culturally and psychologically. There are always exceptions, see complicated music that is liked upon first listening. I won't mention some examples of pop music; it is so immediate that you can listen to it while doing anything.