First Species Counterpoint

1 File

2 Files (the I stands for incomplete chord....there are two in three parts....I believe there are many errors in these)

You need to post slightly sharper images, I can't read anything...

I saw that you numbered the bass notes, good, but use extended numbering, e.g., instead of 6, use 3-6

I hope these are easier to read.... unfortunately the camera is broken and I had to take them with my phone

Simone, regarding the extended numbers, I didn't understand what you mean, excuse my ignorance.....

Ahhhh no sorry, I hadn't read the post that you are doing first species counterpoint. But look, I advise you not to start with this, immediately start looking at the 4-voice one. The first species is obvious, you just make thirds and sixths and you never make mistakes... Start looking at the 4-voice one (Bass - Tenor - Alto - Soprano).

By extended numbers I specifically meant the bass lines to be numbered for the 4 voices. On the third degree it is harmonized with 3-6 for example, but some use only 6; that's why I was telling you to use the full figured bass, but obviously for first species, since they are all dyads, only one interval is needed.

If you want, I can recommend some texts, which text are you using?

This discussion is interesting ... I also recently got a book titled Counterpoint and Composition by Salzer Felix & Schachter Carl but it's a bit difficult, and then Pedron Simon's Harmony Manual; can you recommend something more basic to me?

eh Simon, it doesn't seem that obvious to me since it took me more than an hour this morning to write another three-part counterpoint! Anyway, I am also using Salzer Felix & Schachter Carl's Counterpoint and Composition, just like Pianoscholar.... it's not exactly immediate, but I think I've more or less managed to understand it so far!! Now, however, I have started the second species one!

In the counterpoint I wrote this morning, I had to use a seventh leap in the cantus firmus.... is that an error??.... can the hidden fifth be placed in the penultimate measure?? partly because I don't see any other solution!!

forgive my persistence simon... I would just like to know if it is possible to do the seventh jump! 😆

Forgive me, but I hadn't read...

If you are talking about melodic motion, the permitted leaps are: all major, minor, and perfect intervals up to and including the major sixth. An octave leap can also be made, and chromatic semitones can be performed. Consequently, as you well understand, it is not possible to make leaps on augmented, diminished, or seventh intervals. Therefore, what you did is not permitted; it is an error...

ook....thanks Simon 😆

@pianoscholar

To put it simply, there is Caraba "Practical Fundamentals of Harmony"

TheSimon wrote:

@pianoscholar

To put it simply, there is Caraba "Practical Fundamentals of Harmony"

Thanks, ... I hope to find it. 😆

The first species is obvious, you just have to use thirds and sixths and you never make mistakes...

Well, it's not that simple. And we are not talking about a basso d'armonia.

First of all, DanielePiano did not specify the type of counterpoint he is studying. Whether Renaissance counterpoint (modal), Baroque counterpoint, or tonal counterpoint.

Also, I repeat, it is not a basso d'armonia. The goal of studying counterpoint is not just to write a correct exercise without errors, but to develop a particular cantability in the parts. The melodic movement of the parts matters greatly. And the success of a good counterpoint exercise is not having done it without errors, but having developed good cantability in all the voices.

One cannot immediately move to 4-part counterpoint if the student does not master 2 parts... or 3 parts, because precisely the difficulty of counterpoint is not in avoiding errors (otherwise what would change compared to a basso d'armonia?).

And, within tonal counterpoint, study must be approached in stages... leading the student to master the parts and melodies by first going through all species of counterpoint... it is a training ground. Just as the imitated and fugato bass of the 4th year of composition... is an abstract form... it does not exist historically but is an excellent training ground and preparatory for many things.

and the division of study (speaking of a tonal, "hybrid", purely academic counterpoint) is:

- 1st species - note against note

- 2nd species - two notes against one

- 3rd species - four notes against one

- 4th species - syncopation

- 5th species - florid counterpoint

and this up to 4 parts... then from 5 parts onwards... it is assumed that the student has enough mastery and only the 1st and 5th species are tackled.

all major, minor, and perfect intervals including the major sixth. One can also perform an octave leap and execute chromatic semitones.

False. In counterpoint up to 6 parts, the major 6th is forbidden. It is allowed in 7 and 8 parts. Chromaticism is absolutely not allowed in strict counterpoint (modal and tonal).

And then... in 2-part first species counterpoint, you cannot have more than 3 thirds or 3 sixths in a row.

it is not possible to make leaps on augmented, diminished, and seventh intervals.

Well... let's not generalize. Even in harmony... the augmented 4th is allowed if after this interval one immediately rises by a diatonic semitone... so that the last note of the interval would correspond to the leading tone (in C: fa-si-do). Also the diminished 5th if immediately after one descends by a diatonic semitone. The augmented 2nd is not viewed favorably... but sometimes it is tolerated... in harmony. In counterpoint, no.

....can the hidden fifth be placed in the penultimate measure??

For parallelism errors, the same rules studied in harmony are followed.

Seventh and ninth leaps can be reached in 2 leaps... both in harmony and in counterpoint. It is preferable that the 2nd leap proceeds by a minor 2nd (in harmony).

P.S.

I looked quickly and superficially at some exercises... but it is 2 parts... not 3. And anyway there are quite a few errors... and some regarding the movement of the parts are simply unwatchable.

If the user is interested, I can look at them more closely.

Very good, finally a composer who scolds us!! What you wrote is beautiful and instructive; however, keep in mind that pianists do two years of harmony, and at the exam, the goal is to avoid making mistakes. Certainly, beyond some things that can be permitted in certain cases (some of which I didn't know at all, precisely because I am a pianist and not a composer, and I thank you for kindly correcting statements that might not have been true), I remember a story from Paolo regarding this matter where a composition student deliberately wrote octaves or fifths in their sixth year of composition, if I'm not mistaken. Upon correction, the teacher marked those fifths, and the student showed disappointment without speaking, believing that those fifths were intentional. Without him saying a word, the teacher told him: I didn't mark them because they are an error, but because they don't sound good there... This fits perfectly with what you said about cantability, which I found truly fascinating! It would be wonderful if you could propose a course, as many of us do here. In our opinion, withholding information of great cultural relevance is very foolish, especially if such notions enrich topics that have already fallen so low because of the media, new generations, etc. If we want to return this world to its rightful place in the scale of importance, we all need to work a little harder too, because things don't just fall from the sky... So, I believe it would be very interesting for everyone if you wanted to participate in an initiative like that...

Talk to you again soon and welcome to the forum!

keep in mind, however, that pianists do a two-year course in harmony; at the exam, the goal is to avoid making mistakes.

you said it right .. a two-year course in harmony. Not counterpoint, eheh. And, rightly so, the harmony studied in those 2 years is, almost always, a harmony based on the rule of the octave. And to prevent students from doing whatever they want by making mistakes on the right and left, a few very restrictive rules are given, and everything else is considered an error. With this, the goal is to achieve, as correctly as possible, the harmonization of a bass line at the exam.

Fortunately, harmony is by far much more vast and varied .. but so, so much. And a single (complete) school is not enough to learn a good part of it.

This fits perfectly with the discussion you made about cantability, which I found truly fascinating!

and I haven't even said anything yet .. eheh.

It would be nice if you could propose a course, as many of us do here too. In our opinion, withholding information of great cultural relevance is very foolish, especially if such notions enrich topics that have already fallen so low because of the media, new generations, etc.

Maybe we can talk about it in private.

See you soon.

But with great pleasure, once I have time to return from the Vesuvian lands I will contact you privately... Greetings and Happy New Year !!