Fugue Workshop 2013

rstrauss wrote:

they are linked by something, a repetition of notes, a rhythmic fragment, tonality, a modulation etc. ... just to quote Frank (in one of the analyses of one of my pieces) the 2 themes should somehow be "related".

This already makes more sense and seems to allow me to continue with the reasoning.

Bianca wrote:

But my purpose was not to avoid boring you, but to avoid boring myself while writing them

I know it sounds a bit generic, but when one presents their own pieces in public (even if they are just exercises presented in a forum), the problem of boredom certainly arises! In this specific case, in a "Fugue Workshop," it seems to me that the systematic destructuring of musical discourse is a bit out of place...

RedScharlach wrote:

I know it sounds a bit generic, but when presenting one's own pieces in public (even if they are just exercises presented in a forum), the problem of boredom arises, and indeed! In this specific case, in a "Fugue Workshop," it seems to me that the systematic destructuring of musical discourse is a bit out of place...

Look, put that way it sounds as if I wrote with the aim of being boring, which is certainly not what I said or thought. Aside from the fact that it didn't seem that way at all from the first comments; on the contrary, quite the opposite. Then, obviously, everyone cultivates whatever boredom they please and is perfectly free to do so, but the open discussion is not at all about the two fugues I presented. Besides, I was kindly invited by Frank to participate, who knows my music a little bit, and if he had told me that the profile was that of a conservatory exercise, I probably wouldn't have participated. I wrote the two fugues in a few hours—one first, then the other a few days later—and so they are improvable (in fact, I have accepted many of the suggestions given to me), but even if I had had two months, the general framework would still have been the same. But one thing I can say: my intention in general, not just in music, is not to destructure, but at most to create new structures, a path that is certainly arduous and therefore paved with failures. I am saying this only for clarity, and clarity regarding my "philosophical" point of view before the musical one.

To be more explicit, I am emphasizing this because every time someone feels like suggesting things to me or helping me improve (here and elsewhere, obviously), let them do so with this awareness (unless, of course, their interest is to seek a confrontation—but I don't think that is the case in this forum—in which case I wouldn't even bother responding). Obviously, one can also be left disoriented by an "experiment," and if it hasn't completely succeeded and simultaneously one thinks its purpose was contrary to what it actually was, the conclusions drawn can become inconclusive.

With all this, obviously, I am not asking for special attention; that is not my intention, but I am simply declaring a position which, if someone is not interested, they can avoid wasting their time by knowing it.

Now, I can only thank you for the prompt you gave me to make this clarification.

Bianca wrote:

Look, put that way it sounds like I wrote with the aim of being boring, which is certainly not what I said or thought. Aside from the fact that it didn't seem that way at all from the first comments; on the contrary, quite the opposite. Then obviously everyone cultivates whatever boredom they please and is free to do so, but the open discussion is not at all about the two fugues I presented. Besides, I was kindly invited by Frank to participate, who knows my music a little bit, and if he had told me that the profile was that of a conservatory exercise, I probably wouldn't have participated. I wrote the two fugues in a few hours, one first, then the other a few days later, so they are improvable (in fact, I accepted many of the suggestions I was given), but even if I had had two months, the general framework would still have been the same. But one thing I can say is that my intention in general, not only in music, is not to destructure, or at most to create new structures, a path that is certainly arduous and therefore paved with failures. I say this only for clarity, and clarity regarding my "philosophical" point of view before the musical one.

To be more explicit, I am emphasizing this because every time someone feels like suggesting things to me and helping me improve (here and elsewhere obviously), let them do so with this awareness (unless, of course, their interest is to seek a confrontation - but that doesn't seem to be the case in this forum - in which case I wouldn't even bother responding). Obviously, one can also feel disoriented by an "experiment," and if it hasn't completely succeeded and simultaneously one thinks its purpose was contrary to what it actually was, the conclusions drawn can become inconclusive.

With all this, obviously, I am not asking for special attention; that is not my intention, but I am simply declaring a position which, if someone is not interested, they can avoid wasting their time by knowing it.

Now I can only thank you for the prompt you gave me to make this clarification.

i agree.

for RedScharlach

why don't you try the next workshop?

it is a piece for piano, the theme is already published.

Bianca wrote:

e if he had told me that the profile was that of a conservatory exercise, I probably wouldn't have participated.

In reality it is not like that; even the fugue that I presented (and Ale obviously) is not a conservatory exercise... let's just say there are also few teachers who know how to write a double fugue, let alone something beyond.

The sense I find in RedScharlach's words, as in my own recent ones, is that when someone publishes a piece (in general)... in short, that they don't keep it in a drawer and share it, they should—and it is interesting that they desire this—also have (not only) a keen ear from those who receive it.

This, in my opinion, is a parameter to take into account... I mean, everyone likes to experiment, but when one then lays bare the fruits of such an experiment, if it remains just that, (un)fortunately someone can point it out. And it's another of the advantages of workshops... having a non-paying audience of industry professionals (I would say very diverse in our case, how lovely) who tell us if the ticket price was worth it... always within all the nuances of subjectivity in the case.

Technically speaking, deficiencies can emerge as well as merits; to name one... the first time I presented a piece at the workshop (I was the first one I organized)... it was not a very lucky hand, I also wrote it in a short time, paying very little attention to many aspects. The problems became apparent immediately.

I had other objectives... and the music suffered for it...

rstrauss wrote:

for RedScharlach

why don't you try your hand at the next workshop?

it is a piece for piano, the theme is already published.

It's not a bad idea; moreover, I remember one of his CS [composition studies] for a subject proposed by Zedef... if RedScharlach feels like it, he could also measure himself against this one or past subjects.

I am always happy to listen to the efforts of our ears

Frank wrote:

Technically speaking, shortcomings can emerge as merits, for instance... the first time I presented a piece to the workshop (I was the first one I organized) ... it was not a very lucky hand; I also wrote it in a short time, paying very little attention to many aspects. The problems immediately came to light.

The romance on a theme by Brahms.

Listening to it today, it almost makes me feel pity.

We will republish that one as well.

rstrauss wrote:

The romance on a theme by Brahms.

Listening to it today, it almost makes me feel tenderness.

We will republish that one too.

I think that with great calmness I will review those 2 pieces of mine. One very much and the other a little bit

Frank wrote:

In reality it is not like that,

I mean, should I have participated anyway?

Frank, it depends on whether you want to understand what I wrote or be polemical.

It seems almost tautological to me that if someone "publishes" they do so (also) for the "public"; pointing it out doesn't make much sense, but perhaps you didn't read everything I wrote to the end, or I didn't express it well, or perhaps you meant something else....

Difficult or almost impossible that I am arguing... evidently I haven't understood the general discussion (I am referring to the correlation of the various elements contained in the different messages... even from different users... what a mess). My limit.

Better to let the music speak

A warm greeting and I can't wait to listen to your piece, please

Bianca wrote:

I mean, should I have participated anyway?

Frank, it depends on whether you want to understand what I wrote or just be argumentative.

It seems almost tautological to me that if someone "publishes," they do so (also) for the "public"; pointing that out doesn't make much sense, but perhaps you didn't read everything I wrote to the end, or I didn't express it well, or perhaps you meant something else....

I'll make amends: perhaps you are referring to the fact that you didn't ask me to participate? You probably actually directed the request to me for another workshop, but I am on vacation and have another PC, so I can't find the emails.

Frank wrote:

It's better to let the music speak

Sacrosanct!

In effect, as I just wrote to you, I am dedicating this vacation week precisely to that (in addition to doodling up here)

Frank wrote:

if RedScharlach feels like it, one can also measure with this or the past subjects.

Thanks for the invitation! However, until December my composing schedule is already quite full, and composing a fugue presentable to the public requires a bit of time from me! ... later on, why not?

RedScharlach wrote:

Thank you for the invitation! However, until December my composition schedule is already quite full, and composing a fugue presentable to the public requires a bit of time from me! ... later on, why not?

In fact, I also have my own messes (my piece for pf will be excessively delayed); usually, I publish themes well in advance precisely to allow those who are busy the space to carve out the right amount of time.

I won't hide that I am already working on the subject for next year's fugue, so as to give anyone who feels the need the possibility to use the summer and the Christmas period to delight themselves in these workshops.

You will hear news

...listened to again after some time, excellent and abundant