21st Century Listening

Georg Friedrich Haas - limited approximations (2010)

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RedScharlach

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Opening post by RedScharlach

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I had already listened to some of Georg Friedrich Haas's work in the past, certainly appreciating its craftsmanship. The basic ingredients of his music were immediately clear: roots in spectralism, with a lavish use of intervals smaller than a semitone, large sonic spaces, imposing masses in slow motion (it is inevitable to think of Ligeti from the sixties). In reality, I hadn't delved very deeply, but a recent curiosity prompted me to search again: the first thing I found is this limited approximations (2010).

Here we have six pianos tuned to the 12th of a tone, and the orchestra. Below you will find the presentation notes prepared by Haas himself, where the implications of this "maxi-instrument" are well explained. The microtonal tuning constitutes the identity and physiognomy of the piece: its sense is immediate and irreplaceable, and as far as I am concerned, this is not something to be taken for granted (for example, the piano "detuning" seems to me—on the contrary—the less persuasive aspect of Vortex temporum). What truly conquers me is the refusal to back down in the face of greatness, and indeed the seeking of greatness with sincere pleasure, without thereby renouncing a certain irony. I also find the moments where one arrives at a consonant spectrum equally exciting (for example at 12 minutes, at 19, at 31 ...), and above all the way in which these moments collapse or fray (from this point of view, the best moment is towards 14 minutes).

limited approximations, for 6 micro-tonally tuned pianos and orchestra (2010)

Akiko Okabe, Pi-Hsien Chen, Christoph Grund, Florian Hoelscher, Julia Vogelsänger & Sven Thomas Kiebler, piano

SWR-Sinfonieorchester Baden-Baden und Freiburg
Sylvain Cambreling

The twelfth-tone interval is so small that it is no longer heard as an interval, but rather as the shading of a single note. A single tone played by a romantic orchestra has a wider frequency. The aural effect of a scale in twelfth-tone intervals is thus similar to a glissando. The effect of a cluster of twelfth-tones depends on the register: higher up, it is sharp, abrasive, biting, lower down it is soft, melting, rich. Of course it is also possible to build raw, dissonant chords with twelve-tone intervals -- much more differentiated (also in the degree of acuteness) than with the traditional 12 tones per octave. But it is also possible to build much more "consonant" chords than in the traditional twelve-note scale: a close approximation of the twelve-tone scale can be produced in the overtone scale, accurate up to a twelfth of a tone.

The intonation of the pianos is precisely measurable at all times -- where it would be extremely time-consuming to construct overtone chords with the orchestra alone (including overtone chords based on tonics outside the traditional twelve-tone system), the six precisely tuned pianos can produce these chords in an instant -- admittedly, only in the limited approximation of the 72 twelfth-tones per octave. The score gives the following instruction on the intonation of the overtone scale:

"The twelfth-tone tuning of the pianos provides a good approximation of the intervals of the overtone scale, but diverges from it markedly in some respects. Ideally, the instruments of the orchestra would take the example of the tuning of the piano only at the tonic and the octaves, and correct all other intervals by ear towards the "correct" tuning (particularly the fifths and augmented ninths, the major thirds and the minor sixths), with the twelfth-tone scale of the pianos merely serving as an orientation point."

limited approximations does not tell a story. As with all my compositions, there is also no formal development or traditional formal structure. Contrasting elements alternate with one another -- moments of smoothness and friction. "Pseudo-glissandi" in the pianos arrive unexpectedly at overtone chords. Apparently stable constellations of intervals begin to falter as the twelfth-tones merge.

The spectral, telescoping chords of the pianos are taken up by the orchestra, over and over again. In my early works I had to limit myself to a few basic tones, out of respect for what was practically realisable: in vain makes do with only the 12 tones of the traditionally tuned scale. Natures mortes uses only six different overtone chords, of which four are based on tones found in the traditionally tuned system. In limited approximations, thanks to the pianos, the whole world of sound is open to me. A microtonal countermovement is composed into the final third of the piece: from the fifth C'-G' to the neutral second between the E sharp raised by a twelfth-tone and the F lowered by a sixth-tone. Thus 10 different intervals arise, each of which becomes the centre of an overtone chord. This section last more than 100 bars. Or: an overtone chord, starting fortissimo, rings out, is picked up in the orchestra, swells again to a crescendo, which masks the start of a new overtone"

chord in the pianos, only the reverberation can be heard, it rings out, is taken up by the orchestra, swells... etc.

--Georg Friedrich Haas

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Reply 3 by micamahler

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Val Maira

?? The forum search probably wasn't working, because Red is perhaps the one who, along with Frank, has proposed the greatest number of pieces! I am attaching a few for you:

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/5191-murat-%C3%A7olak-nefespas%C3%A7irai%C5%9Fi-2015/&do=findComment&comment=37034

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/4315-helmut-lachenmann-concertini-2005/&do=findComment&comment=33362

As far as the Haas piece is concerned, overall I like the sonority but I don't find that it achieves anything exceptional, especially in relation to the duration of the piece, which is not insignificant. These sound surfaces that unfold and dissolve into one another are beautiful solutions to me, but they also bored me a little; perhaps I perceived too few substantial differences, which led me to trivialize them a bit? Furthermore, the achievement of the consonant spectrum feels to me like something truly already heard many times; certainly, if the path is spectralism, at a certain point you cannot help but make it heard, but again, I am saying this in relation to my taste. The sections where the pianos are more in the spotlight are very beautiful; I found the resulting sonorities to be very fascinating

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Reply 4 by Zazza

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But micamaher, on one hand you say not to always make the spectralism felt, and on the other hand you find the piano very fascinating... which cannot be spectral. Perhaps it is his own way of achieving what you are looking for... or am I wrong?

Reply 5 by Historical author

micamahler wrote:

?? The forum search probably wasn't working, because Red is perhaps the one who, along with Frank, has proposed the greatest number of pieces! I am attaching a few for you:

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/5191-murat-%C3%A7olak-nefespas%C3%A7irai%C5%9Fi-2015/&do=findComment&comment=37034

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/4315-helmut-lachenmann-concertini-2005/&do=findComment&comment=33362

On the other hand, I think the search works well, because the two links you proposed to me do not deal with pieces by Georg Friedrich Haas.

Furthermore, the link to the Lachenmann piece does not work

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Reply 7 by RedScharlach

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Yes, I agree, the achievement of a consonance is undoubtedly something banal - perhaps banal is not the right word - perhaps it is better to say inevitable - and as it is inevitable, this consonance would be better avoided. And yet I like the courage or recklessness of embracing even this: the consonance that is more consonant than consonance itself - like the true that is truer than the true. I like it because - even if it no longer has the flavor of discovery, as in Grisey - it retains a joyfully paradoxical aspect. And, repeating to myself, the ambition to integrate the piano in this way, and the somewhat utopian stratagems deployed for this purpose, so much so that a single piano is no longer sufficient, six are needed, and all the better, so that the grandiose feeds itself: well, I cannot think of other examples of this type. But perhaps - simply - they exist and I do not know them.

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Reply 8 by Gerardo

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In general I do NOT need something to be new to be able to appreciate it (who cares), what interests me is that it is musical...

...now listening.

Reply 9 by Historical author

micamahler wrote:

But excuse me, where did he write that he proposed something else regarding Haas?

I misread, you are right... I thought it was a second proposal from him... instead HE had already listened

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Reply 10 by Zazza

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micamahler wrote:

For Zazza: I didn't understand

Red explains it well

> by repeating to me, the ambition to integrate the piano in this way, and the somewhat utopian stratagems put in place for this purpose,

I mean, you complain that it's always ghostly... but then it is structurally almost impossible for it to always be so precisely because of the pf.

For me, 6 pianists for one piece are a bit wasted, lucky him that he can afford them... if I ask for more than 2 they look at me badly, and even with 2 they have something to say. Evidently I don't count for sh...it... at all

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Reply 11 by micamahler

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Val Maira

Forgive me, but I never said: It is always spectral. I said: the achievement of the consonant spectrum then has for me something that feels truly familiar from many times before. These are two different things; I was referring to certain moments in the piece in question, also highlighted by Red in the first post.

That's all

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Reply 12 by Frank

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I don't dislike the piece, but I find that a similar result can be easily achieved with audio processing and at much lower costs.

In my catalog, I have a tape that is not far from this kind of atmosphere, and it's almost as if I decided to orchestrate it with acoustic instruments (...which is actually something I propose to myself doing several times).

Anyway, personally speaking, I enjoyed it

Reply 13 by Historical author

I didn't like it very much, it seems extremely drawn out to me.... everything happens too much in "slow motion"

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