in this period I have decided to analytically deepen my study of Frescobaldi's repertoire to make comparisons between vocal and instrumental counterpoint in the early seventeenth century. I am finding great difficulty because the modality he used differs from that of Palestrina, Lasso, Byrd, etc.; it actually turns out to be much more chromatic, with "tonicizations" (I don't know if this is a correct term for this music) and very distant chord changes. In particular, I was reading the Cento partite, I Fiori Musicali, and the Ricercari.
1) Do you have any ideas or know of a precise method of analytical investigation on this author who, it seems to me, wrote using a language very similar to that of Monteverdi and Gesualdo?
2) I have noticed major differences between the Ricercare of Cavazzoni and the Frescobaldian one.
3) I am also trying to analyze the elaboration of material in Frescobaldi using the motivic analysis that Schoenberg applies to Beethoven, but I cannot find satisfactory results. In your opinion, did Frescobaldi generate the melodic structures of his counterpoints through motivic elaboration, i.e., starting from a single fragment and developing it?
Because for example Bach did this; he started from a base figure and generated the rest through contrapuntal techniques. But the good Girolamo seems to me to operate differently.
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Gerardo
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Reply 2 by Gerardo
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277
I would ask you to post an example so that we can refer to the same page of music.
A bit of a long discourse, but for example in the 10 ricercari of 1615 Frescobaldi uses an obbligo: "a compositional rule that the composer imposes on themselves," such as the obligation to build the composition on the notes "mi re fa mi" which function as a "cantus firmus".
I think you are asking a little too much! To answer such technical questions adequately, one would need not only an expert on Frescobaldi, not just an expert on Renaissance music... one would need an expert on Frescobaldi and Renaissance music capable of summarizing extremely complex issues in a non-specialist space. But in reality, these issues are so specialized that any summary would inevitably prove inadequate, if not misleading. As far as I am concerned, having seen and played only a little bit of the Fiori musicali and Toccate, I found things so different from one another that I have no idea where to start to formulate an overall discussion. However, I wouldn't want to discourage your very interesting research: I would only suggest directing it toward other shores. After all, Frescobaldi is no mere nobody; you can find tons of literature on his compositional language.
As far as I am concerned, having seen and played only a little bit of Fiori musicali
Very reductively, I fiori musicali is a collection of various compositions from 1635 (his last work for organ), which includes songs, versetti, etc., intended for different moments of the liturgical celebration. This work represents the summation of Frescobaldi's compositional techniques: contrapuntal devices, connections of pieces in free form with pieces in fugato style (as will subsequently happen with the prelude and fugue, widely used in German music)
RedScharlach wrote:
e di Toccate
These typically begin with a chordal opening, then a passage to a section based on scales and trills, followed by brilliant passages, followed by sections with more extended motifs, and finally a coda. That being said, the structure that I have brutally synthesized is not always respected; in fact, the composer uses a mixed form and, at the harmonic level, ranges between tonality/modality. Chromatic experimentation and harshness or ligatures from the II book are abundant
For Feldman, as Red says, Frescobaldi is a world. For example, the 12 fantasies, with a tripartite structure, are divided as follows: - the first 3 with one subject - the second 3 with 2 subjects - the next 3 with 3 subjects - the last 3 with 4 subjects The intellectualistic conception of these compositions is evident, confirmed by Frescobaldi himself in the preface to the collection
Always shooting from the hip, sorry but lately I haven't had much time. The songs of 1615 are structured into 5 contrasting sections and in the compositions of the second book Frescobaldi manages to perfect the variation of a single thematic element across all sections. Consider that the systematic use of the principle of varying the same theme will favor the birth of the fugue in Italy and Germany.
... and thinking about the capriccios. The 1st book includes polyphonic and contrapuntal structures based on traditional themes such as the spagnoletta, l’ora di Ruggiero, etc. To ensure nothing is lacking, in order to "guarantee" a correct performance of these capriccios, F. writes an introduction dedicated to "the scholars of the work" and suggests interpretive and performance indications.
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Zazza
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Reply 9 by Zazza
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I am not an expert but
Feldman wrote:
But good Girolamo seems to me to operate differently.
from what I read, there is enough to write 10 books; the motivic analysis that Schoenberg applies to Beethoven seems a bit reductive to me... besides, what would Beethoven and Frescobaldi have in common?
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Natan
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Reply 10 by Natan
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Interesting speech, pity that the topic author has disappeared.
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andreavezzoli
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Reply 11 by andreavezzoli
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Frescobaldi's counterpoint oscillates between modality (I have before me one of his fugues with a subject in the Phrygian mode (mi, fa, sol, la, mi, sol, fa, mi) and tonality; in his music, we can clearly photograph the historical period: experimentation, the birth of tonality, the theory of affects, improvisation...
Counterpoint in itself requires an elaboration of the basic material, even in the construction of subjects; when the subject (or the cantus firmus, depending on the type of composition) is taken from a folk song or otherwise from pre-existing material, the composer seeks recurring formulas to build upon the subject or the cantus firmus.
Frescobaldi's chromaticisms are sometimes justified by the theory of affects and sometimes instead by tonal reasons (modulations through a chromatic note); the resulting outcome is a mixture of vocal polyphony and instrumental freedom.
