help! equipollenze afam

Here is what the current regulations provide:

"The stability law, at art. 1, paragraphs 102 to 107 actually provides:

1. the equivalence of first-level academic diplomas to university degrees in class L-3 (three-year degrees in Disciplines of visual arts, music, performing arts and fashion);

2. the equivalence of second-level academic diplomas to university master's degrees (five-year degrees in class LM 45 - Musicology for Conservatories, equated musical institutes and the National Academy of Dance; class LM 12 - Design for ISIA; class LM 65 - Performing arts sciences and multimedia production for the National Academy of Dramatic Art; class LM 89 - Art history, class LM 12 - Design and class LM 65 - Performing arts sciences and multimedia production for the Academies of Fine Arts);

3. the equivalence of old-system diplomas obtained prior to the entry into force of the law (and provided they are combined with a secondary school diploma) to second-level academic diplomas (and thus to master's degrees);

etc."

The third point states that the old conservatory diploma is equivalent to a master's degree, provided it is combined with a secondary school diploma. As written, there is no mention of dates; therefore, if you have a secondary school diploma, your conservatory diploma should be worth a degree. The point is to understand if this is also valid retroactively—that is, by obtaining the conservatory diploma first and then the secondary school diploma. As the law is written, this should be irrelevant, but I would wait for Zedef's intervention, as he is always very well-prepared on these topics.

Simone,
first of all, thank you for the welcome to this web community and thank you for the response to my post.

…I hope to resolve this dilemma as soon as possible.

You're very welcome, don't mention it; we created this forum for this purpose and I hope that once your dilemma is clarified, you won't disappear but instead continue to participate actively in the life of the forum.

It is said that ignorance of the law is no excuse; therefore, according to what is written, once a high school diploma is obtained, you should possess a degree. But I give you this information with a grain of salt, awaiting more competent people in legislative matters to clarify the position, as this is not my field.

I'll try not to disappear, don't worry!

si! let's wait for more experienced people.

Anyway, the director of AFAM replied to me some time ago:

"...in order to be able to benefit from the favorable effects arising from the aforementioned legislative provision, it is believed that by 31/12/2012 it is necessary for the interested party to already be in possession of both required titles...."

...you write that ignorance of the law is no excuse and indeed I share your thought because nothing is actually specified in the law, but unfortunately everyone interprets the rules as they wish, including the director of AFAM.

i would call it more of a "legislative loophole"

don't you think?

Yes, based on what we know... The response from the AFAM director still makes me think that there might be some clause of which we are unaware that clarifies these very issues.

The matter is becoming increasingly intricate...

I don't think so!! also because on the phone they say one thing, then they say another, then again they told me they couldn't put it in writing... in short, a mess!! even they don't know! ...once on the phone they told me: "ehm, one would have to ask the legislator!!" but does that seem normal to you?

tomorrow I'll get up and go to the legislator then

moreover, in your opinion, in the letter they sent me, if they were right, should they have written that "it is believed"?

let's hope someone comes to help

I am reporting to you

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/769-lauree-o-diplomi

thanks chopin but the problem is mainly this (as I was posting yesterday):

"Today I am about to obtain a high school diploma in administration, finance and marketing. At this point I wonder what my qualification is worth? I have an old system diploma in clarinet (2006) and a not yet real high school diploma that I will obtain in 2015."

...the discussion is about the high school diploma obtained under the new system and whether it is worth the same for those who obtain it now. In 2006 I only had the clarinet diploma, I am obtaining the high school diploma now, I don't know if that is clear.

Hello.

Here is the famous text (Law 228 of 2012):

102. In order to enhance the system of higher artistic and musical education and to promote the growth of the Country and for the exclusive purpose of admission to public competitions for access to functional qualifications in public employment for which possession thereof is prescribed, first-level academic diplomas issued by institutions belonging to the system of higher artistic and musical education and specialization referred to in Article 2, paragraph 1, of the law of 21 December 1999, n. 508, are equivalent to degree titles issued by universities belonging to class L-3 of degree courses in the disciplines of fine arts, music, performing arts and fashion as referred to in the ministerial decree of 16 March 2007, published in the Official Gazette no. 153 of 6 July 2007.
103. For the exclusive purpose of admission to public competitions for access to functional qualifications in public employment for which possession thereof is prescribed, second-level academic diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in paragraph 102 are equivalent to master's degree titles issued by universities belonging to the following classes of master's degree courses as referred to in the ministerial decree of 16 March 2007, published in the Official Gazette no. 155 of 9 July 2007:
a) Class LM-12 (Design) for diplomas issued by Higher Institutes for Artistic Industries, as well as by Academies of Fine Arts within the scope of the "Artistic Design for Enterprise" school, referred to in Table A of the decree of the President of the Republic of 8 July 2005, n. 212;

b) Class LM-45 (Musicology and musical heritage) for diplomas issued by Conservatories of music, the National Academy of Dance, and recognized musical institutes;
c) Class LM-65 (Performing arts sciences and multimedia production) for diplomas issued by the National Academy of Dramatic Art, as well as by Academies of Fine Arts within the scope of the "Scenography" and "New Technologies of Art" schools, referred to in Table A of the decree of the President of the Republic of 8 July 2005, n. 212;
d) Class LM-89 (Art History) for diplomas issued by Academies of Fine Arts within the scope of all other schools referred to in Table A of the decree of the President of the Republic of 8 July 2005, n. 212, with the exception of those mentioned in letters a) and c).
104. Second-level academic diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in Article 2, paragraph 1, of the law of 21 December 1999, n. 508 constitute a qualification for access to admission competitions for doctoral research courses or specialization courses in the artistic, musical, art-historical or historical-musical field established by universities.
105. Within twelve months from the date of entry into force of this law, the institutions referred to in Article 2, paragraph 1, of the law of 21 December 1999, n. 508 shall conclude the procedure for the reorganization of all second-level academic courses.
106. Experimental qualifications obtained at the end of paths validated by the Ministry of Education, University and Research in the institutions referred to in paragraph 102, by the date referred to in paragraph 105, are equivalent to first and second-level academic diplomas, according to a correspondence table determined by decree of the Minister of Education, University and Research based on the same principles as in paragraphs 102 and 103, to be issued within three months from the date of entry into force of this law.
107. Final diplomas issued by the institutions referred to in paragraph 102, at the end of the training paths of the previous system, obtained before the entry into force of this law and together with possession of a high school diploma, are equivalent to second-level academic diplomas according to a correspondence table determined by decree of the Minister of Education, University and Research based on the same principles as in paragraphs 102 and 103, to be issued within three months from the date of entry into force of this law.

From 107 it is absolutely not evident that the high school diploma must have been obtained before 2012, which means that once the 2006 diploma was obtained, it will count as LM-45 solely for the purposes of public competitions. At least this is the common reading. I myself participated in the drafting of some rankings a few days ago (dance high schools to be precise) and LM-45 was considered an access qualification for Music History. Those who had only the pre-2012 diploma with a high school certificate entered; those who had the post-2012 diploma, even with a high school certificate, did not.

I specify that the implementing decrees with the mentioned correspondence tables have not yet been released [unless this one ( http://attiministeriali.miur.it/anno-2013/marzo/dm-28032013-%282%29.aspx ) which establishes the equivalence between three-year degrees"}

experimental and regulatory] and therefore there could be different readings in individual cases. We decided that if Law 228 exists, whether through decrees or not, the titles were to be evaluated according to what was written.

so basically you are telling me that if I get a high school diploma now, it will still count as a Level II academic diploma?

clarinet diploma 2006 pre-reform + high school diploma 2015 obtained under the new reform = Level II academic diploma

dilemma...

vitos wrote:

so you are basically telling me that if I get a high school diploma (II grado) now, it will still count as a Level II academic diploma?

clarinet diploma 2006 pre-reform + high school diploma 2015 obtained under the new reform = Level II academic diploma

dilemma...

This is what I have read and continue to read in [Law] 228. The "maturità" has not undergone any reform from the perspective of the legal value of the qualification..

I understand...

thanks! maybe I'll look into it further with some trade unionists, considering the negative response from the AFAM

Ok, then let us know :-)

ooook

hello everyone, with this new law I can't understand anything, in July 2015 I will graduate from the conservatory, I am part of the old system, I wanted to know if with the conservatory diploma from the old system obtained in 2015 I will be able to teach. thank you very much

robertococ wrote:

hello everyone, with this new law I can't understand anything, in July 2015 I will graduate from the conservatory, I am part of the old system, I wanted to know if with the conservatory diploma from the old system obtained in 2015 I will be able to teach. thank you very much

This topic will help you

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/3310-iscriversi-in-graduatoria/

You will see that a diploma might not be enough ...

robertococ wrote:

hello everyone, with this new law I can't understand anything, in July 2015 I will graduate from the conservatory, I am part of the old system, I wanted to know if with the conservatory diploma from the old system obtained in 2015 I will be able to teach. thank you very much

With the old system diploma obtained in 2015, in many provinces one cannot even enter the Provveditorato rankings because it is equivalent to a three-year Level I degree. A Level II (two-year program or v.o. diploma before December 2012) is required.