In this country having a brain is a handicap

And this is a "gem":

http://www.ilgazzettino.it/NORDEST/PADOVA/padova_campo_san_martino_romeni_casa_occupata_giudice_scarcerati/notizie/1018411.shtml

Finds 4 Romanians in the house, but the judge releases them: "Situation of hardship"
The daughter is at university abroad, but finds signs of life. She lies in wait and discovers the squatters. "Absurd, I can't even throw their things away"

To posterity, the difficult sentence.

I had promised myself to let it go, but it is appropriate to clarify this: I am not saying that criminals of every race, nationality or color should not be treated as such. I am saying that in a civilized and evolved country, everyone, regardless of race, nationality, sex, color, has - or must have - the same rights and the same duties.

Then, as always, I leave it to common sense to understand what those rights and duties are.

It is wrong and racist, however, to always paint everyone with the same brush.

danielescarpetti wrote:

to lump everyone together.

For me it is wrong and eventually chauvinistic... quite the opposite of racist, where discrimination occurs

I think that before taking things so lightly and setting oneself up as paladins of justice (I am not referring to Daniele, but especially to many comments I have read on Facebook when these things are discussed), one should try to put themselves in certain contexts. So, I imagine myself being an inhabitant of a social housing unit; I go out to do the grocery shopping and when I return, my house has been stolen from me. In a respectable country, you call the police, they break in by force, they grab everyone by the ears, kick them out, prosecute them, and in the meantime, they immediately return my house to me. Here, that cannot be done because of bureaucracy related to occupation. Do I take a gun and take justice into my own hands? I cannot do that, otherwise this time the police really will come, but to take me and bring me to jail, locking me in a cell with chocolate keys. The Italian state protects criminals, foreigners and locals alike, at the expense of honest Italians who pay and have always paid taxes. Did I speak ill of immigrants? It doesn't seem so.

Certainly, I will say it again, I wouldn't want to generalize, but I believe there isn't even the desire here to categorize because some Italians truly have shit up to their necks... They can't take this situation anymore. I would really like to see what many of those who posted certain sanctimonious comments would say if they found themselves living in this chaos! Let them go live in Tor Tre Teste! Living in certain neighborhoods where immigrants start urinating in public in front of people's houses or in front of children's schools, leaving a desert of empty beer cans and broken bottles around, I believe is unacceptable; and if the local people get worked up and attack them, the law enforcement officers step in to protect them. I think they should protect Italians from these people. It's not racism, none of that, enough with this abuse of the word racism, it's just a mask to put on your face when you don't know what else to say! It is more of a racist attitude to mention it every time one of them does something stupid and one tries to protect them even if the offense is blatant, just because they have different colored skin and one is afraid of being called a racist for pointing a finger at them; then it's easier and painless to side with the sanctimonious observer shouting the word "racist" when convenient - E N O U G H B U L L S H I T -. As far as I'm concerned, they can have purple skin, white, yellow, fuchsia; pretend I am blind, how does skin color change anything for me? I am talking about human beings just like everyone else in this world, but as a human being, if you make a mistake, you must pay, but in your own home, because I won't put you in my prison at my expense to continue supporting you; that is an obligation that belongs to your country of origin... It's just common sense! In a "civilized and evolved" country, things should work this way. If you expose yourself near a tree in front of a street where there are people (including possibly children), you must be caught and kicked back to where you came from to serve your sentence, and you don't come back here; if you are Italian, you will serve your sentence here in Italy, no distinctions are made. Furthermore, since we are talking about a civilized country, I want to take the example of Australia, where two of my ex's uncles live. Entering Australia is not easy even for those going on vacation because once you descend from the airport, they check you even inside your underwear. For those who want to stay long-term (over 3 months), they must get a green card and must send a bank statement with a balance so that it can be guaranteed to the Australian state that they have the means to spend several months there. The logic is very simple... If someone doesn't have a cent in the bank, it is assumed they cannot live -> ergo -> they must steal or work under the table... Neither of these things is tolerated by the state.

Once entered, we must obligatorily declare a residence where the immigration police can track us down. Once the residence is communicated, systematic checks by the authorities will follow. When the three months expire (if entered Australia as tourists), the authorities come to get you; if you have earned money illegally (under-the-table work), they take it from you, put you on the first departing plane and send you back home. To me, this is an evolved country, where citizens pay 20% income tax on annual earnings, without further taxation, and they have services, public water, healthcare, and everything works as it should... Everything is included in that 20%, the same for everyone. You earn 100,000 euros a year? 20,000 are taxes; you earn 10,000? 2,000 are taxes? You earn nothing? You don't have to pay anything and in fact, the state provides assistance until it finds you a job (meaning for Australian citizens). Immigrants are welcome only

if able to bring improvements to the country. Are you an energy engineer specializing in alternative source technologies? If Australia needs you, the doors are open. After 5 years of working on contract, you can even apply for citizenship. If you are not useful, you are out. There, they only let people in if you produce and increase the gross domestic product; otherwise, they don't want you. Now, what improvements have the immigrants coming to Italy brought? They come, work under the table (or so it is said, otherwise they steal) and send the little nest egg back to their country, and here the money circle becomes ever smaller. If you go on Google and search for statistics related to vandalism and delinquency, these have grown exponentially since fleets of illegal immigrants began arriving every day; after all, the math is very simple: if there is no work and you don't have a cent, you have to steal to survive... These are not opinions but facts! Australia is a continent that thinks about its people who pay taxes; others are welcome only if they are convenient for the development of the country.
Is this way of thinking wrong? In my opinion, not at all!

Here instead we let everyone in and mark my words, the state does not do it for humanitarian reasons but only for the economic interests behind it. Let us always remember the history of the entrepreneurs when there was the terrible earthquake in L'Aquila, who laughed and snickered on the phone thinking about the money they could make from the misfortunes of so many poor people. This is a shameful country and if things continue this way, I don't think I will continue to stay here much longer...

TheSimon wrote:

Certainly, I will say it again, I wouldn't want to paint everyone with the same brush, but I believe there isn't even a willingness here to catalog why some Italians truly have shit up to their necks... They can't take this situation anymore. I would really like to see what many of those who posted certain polite comments would say if they found themselves living in this hellhole! Let them go live in Tor Tre Teste! Living in certain neighborhoods where immigrants urinate in public in front of people's houses or in front of children's schools, leaving a desert of empty beer cans around, broken bottles, I believe it is unacceptable; and if the locals lose their temper and assault them, the law enforcement officers step in to protect them. I think they should protect Italians from these people. It's not racism, nothing of the sort, enough with this abuse of the word racism, it's just a mask to put on your face when you don't know what else to say! It is more of a racist attitude to mention it every time one of these people does something stupid and an attempt is made to protect them even if the offense is blatant, just because they have a different skin color and one is afraid of being called a racist for pointing a finger at them; then it's easier and painless to side with the polite observer by shouting the word "racist" whenever necessary - E N O U G H B U L L S H I T -. As far as I'm concerned, their skin could even be purple, white, yellow, fuchsia, pretend I am blind, what does skin color change for me? I am talking about human beings just like every one of us in this world, but as a human being if you make a mistake you must pay, but in your own country, because I won't put you in my prison at my expense to continue supporting you; it is an obligation that belongs to your state of origin... It's just common sense! In a "civilized and evolved" country, things should work this way. If you expose yourself near a tree in front of a street where there are people (including possibly children), you must be caught and kicked back to where you came from to serve your sentence and you don't come back here; if you are Italian, you will serve your sentence here in Italy, no distinctions are made.

I quote this part of the intervention because I think it is the most significant one. Many people open their mouths and keep talking because they don't even know what they are talking about. It's easy to call someone a racist when they live in such a context. I wonder, since they are so proactive and meritorious, if they would go there themselves. It's easy to sit in an armchair in front of the television in a nice residential house and speak with bias. Let them take their children down to Tor Bella Monaca, or take them to school there.

Question for Daniele who, reading the previous posts, seemed to me to defend them tooth and nail... I don't know if you have children, but if you did, would you feel safe letting them go out in those areas? In light of everything you have said, if you told me no, I would have to call you a racist, because here we must not paint everyone with the same brush.

It seems to me that this discussion is taking a bad turn, perhaps even or especially because of me. Let's see how it evolves; if necessary, it will be closed.

Guys, if we can, let's stay on topic... namely the brain drain from Italy towards foreign countries.

It seems to me that we are still on topic. If one speaks of brain drain, one inevitably speaks of the causes; the degradation of the country and uncontrolled immigration are some of these causes, and the discussion has taken this development naturally. Speaking of brain drain, it is inevitable to speak of politics, work, and society; if it hadn't been so, the discussion would have died out at the first post. If I were to return strictly on topic now, speaking solely about brain drain without touching upon these subjects, sincerely, I wouldn't know what else to write.

I agree, Zenigata! The important thing is that they don't get personal.

It would be necessary (on the part of governments worldwide) to introduce a regulation that entails, in the case of a "minor" offense such as theft, recidivism of the latter, and increasingly serious crimes, the transfer and payment of expenses by the individual's country of origin; furthermore, detention and all accessory expenses should always fall upon the country of origin (if and when possible, by seizing assets from the person in question), so that if I, an Italian, go to France and commit an offense for which detention or house arrest is prescribed, it must be Italy that pays for me (if I am unable to), and not the country hosting me.

In response to Frank

Sometimes when trying to prove one's own idea, it can be legitimate to ask some questions to those directly involved. I am not taking it personally; I am just trying to provide a point of view that some polite/proper people lack, simply because they do not live in that situation. This point of view may or may not be taken into consideration later, but in the meantime, it is right for everyone to have their say; after all, this is a forum.

In response to Piccinesco

I agree with everything you said. To make such a law, international agreements would need to be stipulated. They can't even reach an agreement among themselves here in Italy, let alone with other countries in the world. It is not a simple thing.

@Zenigata

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt this is a forum, but we must always try to express our opinions without ever pointing fingers at someone. Perhaps we misunderstood, but I believe that even Frank, in his invitation to return to the topic, wanted in some way to urge debates to take turns that were not necessarily individualistic and directed at specific people. We can certainly say what we want, but I repeat, always out of respect for other people and respect for their thoughts. It is evident that Daniele and I have some opposing views on the immigration problem; this does not change the fact that despite me not sharing some of his opinions, I still respect his idea. Getting to the point, precisely because we are in a forum, let's try to maintain a certain harmony at least among us users, moderators, and technical staff in general. In my previous posts, sometimes my interventions may appear ambiguous. Those reading might think that I have it out with someone in particular; perhaps that is true, but I assure you not with anyone registered here on the forum, but rather with people who, given their position, will never have the chance to read what we say about them here on the forum.

@piccinesco

In Romania, there are many fewer Romanian criminals than there are here in Italy. Certainly there are also decent people (I also have a few estimable Romanian friends). The point is that these friends have told me several times how the law works in their country. If you get caught stealing in Romania, they prosecute you and you serve your entire sentence from the first to the last day.

Sorry if I wrote something wrong, I am using iPhone voice dictation.

People worse than those from other states come to your Italy because this is a playground. If they steal in their own country, they go straight to jail; here in Italy, nothing is done to them and they act tough about it.

TheSimon wrote:

@piccinesco

In Romania, there are many fewer Romanian criminals than there are here in Italy. Certainly there are also decent people (I also have a few Romanian friends who are estimable). The point is that these friends have told me several times how the law works in their country. If you get caught stealing in Romania, they prosecute you and you serve your entire sentence from the first to the last day.

Forgive me if I wrote something wrong, I am using iPhone voice dictation.

Yes, I heard this thing too, and it's not the first time, so it seems true.

Exactly (besides the fact that the law here, in certain ways, is obsolete and unfair) a solution would be to ensure that those who commit crimes pay in their own country and that the expenses should not have to be borne by the one hosting them.

In my opinion, the issue should not be addressed by talking about illegal immigrants and non-EU citizens. We should discuss intentions. Those who intend to respect the laws and be a role model must have the respect of others; those who do not intend to follow these virtues should be sent back to where they come from (in the case of non-EU citizens) or arrested in the case of fellow citizens. I think an issue that is actually extremely simple is being made too complicated. It is obvious, of course, that security measures should be taken, but this does not benefit Italy because many people are profiting from providing assistance to refugees.

Ilaria, from Latina to New York: «Me, a brain drain? No, if anything it is Italy where no one comes»

http://roma.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/16_febbraio_28/ilaria-latina-new-york-io-cervello-fuga-no-semmai-italia-che-non-viene-nessuno-0cc07dfc-de0c-11e5-8660-2dd950039afc.shtml

And the funny thing is that in Italy, precisely the political forces that protect this system of institutionalized anti-meritocracy and favoritism are the ones who then talk big about young people and work... Not to mention the universities which, by exploiting this plague - for which they are the primary responsible parties - ask for more money.

Politics (in many cases) is not politics, but merely low-level rhetoric.

For years, there has been a fashion of using terminology from specific contexts (work-related and otherwise) that pseudo-politics loves to play with.

Sometimes it seems that (even the microphone holders, because without contradiction or even a minimum of taking a stand, a journalist cannot consider themselves such) they enjoy (and surely they do) playing "poets," but end up looking ridiculous.

One of the stupidest phrases I have ever heard is this "we sent our sherpas ahead," using (in my opinion) with a total lack of respect a word whose meaning everyone now knows.

Personally, those who amuse themselves so much playing with words (which has nothing to do with their laziness) I would seriously send to the Himalayas or the Andes; then we will see how much of their arrogance they can pull out.

People who are too well-off, people who (let's remember Mussolini in a statement from a few years ago, but I imagine the thought remains the same) declare (bitterly) that with 5000 euros one becomes a pauper.

You know that word that starts with Vaff...

Well, they fully deserve it.

I think that everything being said is right and sacrosanct. However, I think the fault lies primarily with us. Italians always limit themselves to complaining on Facebook or on a forum—I am the first to do it myself—and there is never anyone who, when it's time to take to the streets, doesn't prefer to stay at home in slippers in front of the television watching a football match. After all, others will take care of it. I don't believe that problems can be solved this way. w