In What Key Am I?

...understood in a row? I mean, if F# were diminished, you could be in G major for example:

mi- VI

do- IV minor

la- II

fa# (specifically dim) VII

Always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

DiesIrae wrote:

...is it your own invention?

Yes, I like how they sound and I wanted to keep going ... but I have some obvious difficulties

The key that most succeeds in bringing these chords closer together, which are far apart in themselves (also because F# minor has sharps and C minor has flats), is indeed E minor, considering the F# as the II degree of the E Dorian scale; A does not need interpretation because it is a IV degree, and C is a VI degree which in the key of E minor should be major, but it was made minor by playing on the dual value of Eb, which enharmonically can function as the leading tone to E (D#), and this brings these two chords closer.

This passage VI min I min mi reminds me of the track 'The Duel of Jester and Tyrant' by Return to Forever by Chick Corea, in which there is a rather similar passage: Am, Bm, Cm, Em....

What a beautiful interpretation Geppino, thank you!

geppino12575 wrote:

do - is a VI degree which in the key of E minor should be major, but it has been made minor by playing on the dual valence of Eb, which enharmonically can function as the leading tone to E (D#), and this brings these two chords closer.

Curiosity, what would be the most natural continuation of the harmonic progression, specifically in view of that Eb enharmonic to D#...?

Thanks Geppino, I was afraid that I was the one being completely played... instead. DiesIrae has sparked a certain curiosity in me, since I don't quite know how to "proceed"... given the presence of the sensitive [one], would an E minor be too obvious?

If you understood Geppino's post, you probably have the answer

Geppino is an expert on the subject, I am merely observing that they are all chords in 3rd intervals (F# A C E). The somewhat cinematic sound is not accidental because they are very commonly used in this field.

for the continuation, it depends on what you want to do. you could exploit the B major which works well as a dominant of E (but it is perceived little as a dominant and this works well); or you could further exploit the 3rd interval relationship and go to G# minor and from there repeat the same progression (G#m - B - D - F#-) (perhaps after the F# you place a C# major so if you want you can start again from the beginning)

Barbara wrote:

Excuse my ignorance, but considering the following chords: F#- A- C- E- in which key could I be? It would also be nice to know the reasons. Thanks to anyone who wants to help me find an answer...

F# and A- are not part of the same key....you can hear it immediately. The reason they sound connected in some way is because of the common note.

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

F# minor and A minor are not part of the same key....you can hear it immediately. The reason they sound somehow connected is because of the common note.

In other similar topics, someone mentions hypothetical chords...but I've never understood a damn thing about them...

the continuations could be different ... it depends on the character you want to give it ...

senza considering harmonic successions or keys, possibilities exist and there are various methods ... you can choose to keep one note fixed and vary the other 2 :

es. 1

i fix the G and the other two move in contrary motion by a semitone, so you would obtain a C minor chord which would give a rather dramatic character.
es. 2

i fix the E with G and B which descend by a semitone ... you would thus obtain an F#7 (3rd inversion) chord with an interlocutory character that could resolve into B minor or major.

and so on ... you just have to choose what satisfies you most.

Ok RStrauss, but how to insert everything into a "functional" discourse?

Dilettante wrote:

Ok RStrauss, but how to insert all this into a "functional" discourse?

if by "functional" you mean how to fit this into a composition, there are 2 aspects to evaluate:

1. what comes before

2. what the composer would want to come after

modulation detached from the harmonic context—and by this I mean when you make the parts move in a certain direction regardless of which key you will take next and solely because you want the parts to move in a certain way—can be useful for jumping to distant keys, or for inserting a breaking episode, or even for suddenly changing the atmosphere without preparation...

to clarify, let me give you an example:

let's take the diminished chord on F#

F#-A-C-Eb

from here, where do we go?

we resolve to D major 1st inversion: all alterations disappear and there is a sense of illumination

we resolve to C minor 2nd inversion: we keep C and Eb and everything darkens

we go to another diminished chord up or down: we increase the tension

we go to F7 (5th degree of Bb): we only move the F# and make it descend to F, and we will have a sensation of calm, but not too much since it is a suspended chord.
and so on...

if the first two examples are harmonically (classical harmony) correct, the 3rd and 4th are not, as they are formed only by voice leading.

contrary example... you are on a nice tonic pedal and are about to resolve, but you would like to insert something different before closing...
es.

F major chord. hold the F steady and move the A to Ab and the C to Db, creating a Db major 1st inversion chord, and then return to F major. this provides a certain relaxation.
or, keep the F steady, move the A to Ab and the C to B natural, creating a diminished chord on F, and this provides tension.
etc.
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Interesting

great post Rstrauss, if it doesn't bother you too much and doesn't take up too much of your time to put the example you made into a notation program and post it, I will study it well because obviously you know what you are talking about. I like those who explain like you; in the last two years I have taken some lessons from a Roman composer (I won't name names) who is musically talented but as a teacher he isn't good, he isn't technical enough at a theory level. He always bores me to death and tells me 'don't study any more theory, books, etc.'. According to him, I have studied too much theory. I think he's out of his mind. Anyway....

PS. No pressure, naturally

pianistamaggiorenneDi38 wrote:

great post Rstrauss, if it doesn't bother you too much and doesn't take up too much of your time to put the example you made into a notation program and post it, I will study it well because obviously you know what you are talking about. I like those who explain like you; in the last two years I have taken some lessons from a Roman composer (I won't name names) who is musically talented but as a teacher he isn't good, he isn't technical enough at a theoretical level. He always bores me to death and tells me 'don't study theory, books, etc., anymore'. According to him, I have studied too much theory. I think he's out of his mind. Anyway....

PS. Without obligation, naturally

So... as I have always maintained, but so have others on this forum, the study of harmony and counterpoint must absolutely be done. Look, even my composition teacher worked me to the bone with theory, but you have to do this first... sure, you can still compose, but you will have evident limits without basic study... so whoever your teacher is, I cannot agree with him on studying... and just to quote myself: you can only transgress the rules if you know them.

I already have the examples ready... besides, I use them in my pieces.

File1.pdf (taken from an opera I have just finished)

Look at the last 2 bars of the page.

Example of modulation with only part-leading where parts move by semitone or remain stationary.

C major chord going to A-flat major, with a very interlocutory and suspended character.

In this context, I needed a harmonic succession that would give me a suspended moment since that character then has to declaim

something in recitative... it would have been too long to prepare the cadence in key and it would have had less effect.

File2.pdf (taken from the same opera)

bars 13 and 14

modulation from A major 2nd inversion to D-flat fundamental

this modulation confers a great luminosity.

In this context, the character says something that leaves the other character very disturbed and therefore I needed something that would create

pathos.

File3.pdf (from my Alma Redemptoris Mater, which you can find in the laboratories)

bars 70-71

it goes from a diminished chord on the VII° degree in 2nd inversion to the 7th of the dominant, moving only the lowest note.

File4.pdf (from my piece Ultim Mandi for choir and pf.)

Bars 101-102-103

this is the finale with the 'particular' chord in the middle.

from F major on the tonic pedal I go to D-flat and return to F major.

If you want the complete scores

You can download the Alma Redemptoris from this site, you can download Ultim Mandi from my site (link below the avatar)
while for the opera I cannot give you more as it is still in the finishing stages.