Instrument Rental (By a Private Individual)

The legal method is to have a VAT number and invoice

Question, "a privati" (as per the post) or "da privati" (as per the topic title)?

Both, from private to private, and from private to recording studio, or for use in concerts etc..

Usually I know that for certain things a VAT number is required, but I mean specific documentation, not a blank sheet on

which to write the details of the "renter" and the "user", so that both can be protected.

A private agreement can always be made, it's just that if the contents are low-value "unfortunately" taxation is triggered. Taxation requires there to be a tax subject, such as a Tax Code or VAT number

That "is not a problem," it would be worth seeing how much such a transaction would be taxed, taking into account that the rental would not have the same impact as the rental

of course offered by a shop.

If you have a VAT number, practically half of it goes up in smoke

If you use a Tax Code, you will aggregate your income in the Single Model (or 730 or whatever)... and then it will depend on the IRPEF tax brackets....

I understand, then since it's not even a very remunerative "activity" (if it were to work, you'll understand, with only 2 instruments), one has to see how much will go towards taxes; I need to ask the revenue agency, the sensational thing is that SIAE does not respond on this.

Thanks to everyone anyway.

Piccinesco wrote:

i had to ask the release agency, the sensational thing is that SIAE does not respond on this.

It seems strange to me that someone thinks this is a matter for SIAE. Why should SIAE be interested in income taxation? Heaven forbid they even do that... In my opinion, the most suitable person for this kind of information is an accountant

I thought about SIAE precisely because they are involved in everything, anyway I received some clarifications.

You've had your clarifications, but let the others know too...

I am opening a sole proprietorship (PI), 400 euros a month go away between INPS and regional and state taxes, then let's never forget the VAT that you pay in relation to how much you earn. Not everyone knows that the 400 fixed euros (about 780 euros every 3 months for INPS alone) must be paid regardless of whether one has worked or not. Example: I open the shop and I have to wait 30 days for the inspection by the municipal police, then the inspection by the ASL (local health authority). 3 months pass, I haven't been able to work, I haven't earned a single euro but I still have to pay 780 euros. If I don't pay them, the file goes to Equitalia (Another agency aimed at legalized extortion) which sends it back to you with the increase to be paid within 60 days; if it is not paid again, they send an ultimatum to be paid within 15 days with a quintupled amount; if it's still not paid, a bailiff. My mother told me the news of a young man interviewed who had inherited a house from his deceased grandfather which was seized because the grandfather in question had not paid a fine; things went forward and everything was already in the hands of the bailiff. House seized for a 50 euro fine. But where is the state? What does the President of the Republic do? Is he only capable of saying bullshit on television? These are serious matters. It's impossible to go from 50 euros to a house! Not even if the fine hasn't been paid for 15 years.

After a year, you send the bailiff to take a television or a piece of furniture. A house for 50 euros is impossible? How can a parking violation be commensurate with a house?

It's exactly as Simone says: fixed costs destroy you!

However, years ago it was allowed in the case of "occasional services" to pay the fee due by law to the registry office without having a P.I. [VAT number] or various registrations.

It should still be allowed.

Then they are all so precise regarding taxes to be paid etc.. (I mean how the anti-citizen system is regulated) that you can see how everything is then redistributed into services, in practice

nothing, 99% of taxes (revenue stamps, fixed tax etc... ) are completely unjustified and make no sense, they only serve to fatten those we know, if at least this served

to have efficient services in every context it might even be okay (always in quotes), but it is not like that; today I made an approximate estimate of the money coming into the agency's coffers

versus the outgoings, it is 458 if I haven't missed one along the way, and calculating on average (many sign contracts, I know a calculation done this way is not truthful, but let's make an average )

168 euros per contract per person, let's say that 25/30 contracts are signed per day per agency, let's add an average of 2 revenue stamps of 14.62, we are at about 200 euros,

so at least 5,000 euros per day for just 25 contracts of 168 euros (there are other types but let's take these as an example since they are the most "widespread") now let's multiply everything by 458

and we arrive at 2,290,000 euros per day, it reaches more than 60 million euros per month and 700 million in a year, where does this money go?

Especially the 168 euros, how do we justify them, and the revenue stamps, increased by at least about 3 euros from 2/3 years ago until now?

There are no justifications.

Art. 3 of the Consolidated Law on Registration Tax (D.P.R. 131/1986) subjects only real estate lease agreements to the obligation of registration.

Leases of movable property (musical instruments), provided they are made in the form of a private agreement, should fall under art. 5 of the same consolidated law and therefore be subject to registration only in case of use (in practice, only if one is forced to assert them in a dispute).

Therefore, I would not worry about the registration tax.

Every activity carried out professionally (and not merely occasionally) is subject to taxation which, in any case, is proportional to income.

However, for new activities and for young people under 35, there is the possibility of benefiting from the "minimum taxpayers' regime" which provides, among other things, exemption from VAT and a flat-rate Irpef tax at 5% (http://www.tasse-fisco.com/liberi-professionisti/nuovo-regime-minimi-2012-apertura-partita-iva/7844/).

The higher costs, therefore, would be the social security contributions, which I cannot quantify for you.

Obviously, the best advice is to consult an accountant.

Finding an accountant who isn't a fraudster—there will surely be some—but everywhere you turn, you feel the interference.

Today I received the quote for a Kurzweil K 2500 R (some of you will surely know it) once things were done, and it would be one of the instruments that I could "rent out," but as Simone was telling me, it's a mess; due to age, if that were the case, I am now over 35 years old, as of 2 months ago, and we know that in Italy there is this stupid tendency to set age limits, this thing is truly absurd for anyone.

Then, I can imagine the "business" turnover I would make, one rental every 14 years, but I thought about this because it wouldn't be bad if there weren't so many hassles at a state level, and hassles regarding paying and losing money, that's all we're talking about.

Unfortunately, I had a VAT number for years (never used, and I couldn't close it because we didn't have the money to close the SAS linked to it), unless I started studying (with this head of mine) and became [something] (which is impossible because if you aren't the son of someone who knows the archbishop with a very retrograde mindset, who is a relative of the monsignor, in turn a cousin of the assessor of the head of the state property office (demon) married to the daughter-in-law of the polysignor hit with the provincial councilor position at the 4th, grandfather of one of those people part of the "web," you can't get out, and if I had been part of a family like this perhaps I would have disowned everyone and ended up in a coffin very soon), and no check was ever made to verify if I actually received income or had a bank account, nothing; that's why checks are either done well or not done at all to "whomever they please," I was a nobody and I am a nobody.

Ok, ok, I just wanted to give you some information...

Maurizio, you open a VAT number (partita IVA) only if you are sure of having a turnover of at least 15,000 euros per year. That way, you are sure to put 700€ net in your pocket per month. If you think you will make less than this annual figure, abandon the idea of opening a VAT number because you will ruin yourself. You risk having to pay only fixed costs, and if you don't have the money to pay them, they will come to seize your house. Are you insolvent? No problem, they will seize something as soon as they register anything in your name. Is it worth taking such a risk for pocket change? I repeat, a VAT number is opened if you are certain of exceeding a certain annual turnover; otherwise, it is just a waste of money.

TheSimon wrote:

Maurizio, you open a VAT number (partita IVA) only if you are sure of having a turnover of at least 15,000 euros per year. That way, you are sure to put 700€ net in your pocket per month. If you think you will make less than this annual figure, abandon the idea of opening a VAT number because you will ruin yourself. You risk having to pay only fixed costs, and if you don't have the money to pay them, they will come to seize your house. Are you insolvent? No problem, they will seize something as soon as they register anything in your name. Is it worth taking such a risk for pocket change? I repeat, a VAT number is opened if you are certain of exceeding a certain annual turnover; otherwise, it is just a waste of money.

I'll answer you with a joke (obviously this is a serious discussion, but I do this just so I don't have to "hang myself," since the only certainty is that there is always something to pay, and only that, eh).

I do have turnover, but in reverse.

Speaking (writing) seriously, you had already hinted at it, and in fact, I absolutely do not fall into figures of this kind, even if I put together the last 5 years; it seems paradoxical, but

that's how it is, in the end they will seize me directly if I haven't gone bad yet.

In fact, it's expense after expense; if only they turned into services, but no.

Thanks anyway, to you and the others for the advice and clarifications.