Keyboard tuning

I will answer you in order...

Beats are not random and, in fact, ear tuning techniques are based precisely on the division of the middle octave through the counting of these beats between various dyads... To understand this better, if you want, I can send you a video and a text I wrote for a university exam in which I speak specifically about piano tuning algorithms, where, in one part of the work, I examine the theory behind the mathematical counting of beats between intervals.

If they are samples, I cannot know; it depends on the technology used in the creation of this digital piano... Essentially, there are three categories:

1) Synthesized

2) With sampled sounds

3) Formant synthesis (physical modeling)

In reality, in all three it is possible to vary the parameters, albeit in different ways, and thus also the number of beats between dyads, but the subject transcends this and would require a separate paragraph to discuss.

No, you cannot use your keyboard to clone the tuning onto another piano... This would imply that the piano from which your keyboard was sampled and the piano you are tuning must both have the same inharmonicity for every single string. Which is obviously impossible... You can clone the tuning by sampling your piano key by key once it is tuned, but this would only work on your piano and not for very long, because over time there would be structural changes (to the string structure, to the soundboard, to the hammers) that would compromise its reliability).

If it is a synthesized piano, it could be... But you just need to adjust or replace the oscillators or the trimmers that regulate the reference note (it is not uncommon to find a small regulator behind old keyboards with A440 written on it).

Regarding the dynamics factor as well... Humidity can ruin the velocity sensors, and by playing a key with little dynamics, a lot of dynamics could come out of the speakers or vice versa.

Regarding the room, I believe it should be treated rather than soundproofed, i.e., corrected. The subject is very dense; perhaps open another topic and we can talk about it elsewhere.

Ok, simo, thanks a lot for the clarifications.. I imagined it wasn't possible to use a sampled keyboard as a reference, and the doubt came to me thinking about how well a keyboard sounds when it is well-tuned on paper and then re-proposed on the piano, the 2+2 series.. but this time 4 doesn't make sense =D ..+ also, what else I don't understand, what is meant by disharmony? and why does every piano have its own different disharmony? I mean, the beats must always be the same, I don't understand why every piano must be tuned differently from another if the underlying rule is the same? If you talk about it in the file you wrote about above, would you humbly pass it to me? even just the part that deals with the tuning topic, leaving aside the electronics which I probably wouldn't properly understand.. I struggle to tune the piano by myself, so I'll study it all =D and since books on the subject are hard to find, at least I haven't found any, and if you have suggestions I'm all ears, I want to know more.. I imagine that you, like Paolo, will tune your pianos yourselves.. it would be nice if you did courses on the subject, seeing as you are so prepared and are masters on the topic, even though I know it might be impossible, and the video tutorials are already manna from heaven! Thanks for everything, in advance.. =D

Paolo obviously tunes his own piano and also tunes mine. I am a sound engineer and I study mathematical models applied in various sectors of professional audio, including the piano (which is my instrument); however, this does not make me a piano tuner, which requires great experience—I say this without infamy or praise, with much humility. Making a parallel in the construction field, engineers design a shopping center, draw the electrical lines, water and air conditioning systems, etc., etc.; it doesn't mean that they then know how to carry out the project themselves. I don't have the necessary experience to find the balance of the unisons and I would need more experience also in counting beats. Once I tuned the piano by myself but it took me half a day and the tuning only lasted a little bit for a few weeks.

For a small essay and a relaxed video, let's not show off here, we like to share; send me your email and I will send you the links.

Ahahahah ok, I'm noticing that it's tough for me too, and I think a few weeks would already be a great result; right now we're at the level of a few days =D I want to learn too, and somewhere one must eventually start gaining experience..=D thanks for the tips (the email is very imaginative gigio.85@hotmail.it ) =D

Look, to learn don't rely on books; those are only useful for understanding the theory, then you can delve into the mathematics as much as you want, just as I did. The point is that for practice, you must be accompanied by an expert technician. I have known Paolo for years, since I was 9 to be exact, and only now am I starting to hear something as it should be, but I still can't tune the piano by myself because my tunings only last from Christmas to Boxing Day. Sooner or later I will succeed, I won't give up; if Paolo one day decides to gift me this legacy, knowing him, he surely will. For the moment, I feel lucky to act as his shop boy when he comes to tune my piano. For me, it is already a lot to know the piano well and express my dissatisfactions to it; this must be the relationship between tuner and pianist, and this is also one of the motives that pushed us to open this site and this forum! I am sending you the email with the links so that at least in the meantime you can study the theory well to understand the real difficulties encountered when tuning the piano.

Always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

As you can see, even more of a night owl. Actually, I am on vacation until the 7th, so I went out to have some fun these last two days of the weekend. Then from Tuesday, everything starts up again and it's more than just small hours!!!!

But... don't give me too many compliments!!!! Every instrument is different and... Simone isn't really a "workshop boy". A certain subjectivity in tuning exists, it does. But I believe that in the division of the sector, one cannot invent much. Now, methods are different. There are those who say that one should tune by major thirds because the beats are easier to hear, and there are those who maintain the succession of fifths and fourths, with control of thirds and sixths (I do it this way). Even if the exact values of the fluctuations of fifths, fourths, and thirds can be found in books, it depends on the types of instrument. I venture to say that the octave is not always perfectly just. Sometimes it is made wider. The same goes for other intervals. Some "pushed" pianos—that is, with strings designed larger to have more power—result in being more disharmonious. And it's debatable. Sometimes it is better to recalculate a string scale to even out the tensions... even at the expense of disharmony. One never finishes discovering and understanding. The subject is fascinating for this reason. Forgive me if I simplify a lot. Sometimes this has caused me harm. On YouTube, I said: "fifth with the same beats as the inverted fourth" and I rightly had everyone coming at me. I wanted to simplify and not go into difficult details, nor alter the truth. Naturally, it's not like that. When I find myself talking about such complex topics, assuming that I can be useful and exhaustive, I try to embrace simplification to allow everyone to approach the phenomenon with ease. It is a type of "approach" I have chosen for myself on this Site and in this Forum. It is up to each of us to seek further study and look for sources, as far as we want to push ourselves and push ourselves even further.........only to simplify again. Simplification is the child of in-depth study. That's what I think.

Anyway, the fact remains that without your teachings in the videos and here on the forum, dear Paolo, many of us even now would not know what lies behind a row of 88 white and black keys and would not know how to properly relate with the right degree of knowledge in the presence of the tuner.. A heartfelt thank you for helping me emerge from this state of ignorance; I speak at least for myself obviously, but I don't think I am the only one who thinks so.. let's just say that you are our Socrates and you have awakened in us the desire for knowledge, to ask and to experiment; we are all a bit like your cybernetic apprentices, every time on the forum you are the reference point for the technical part and Simone for the technological part.. in any case, if ever in the future you get the whim to open a real "Bottega" (Workshop) where one could follow courses and teachings from you, you already have your first subscriber; it would be the ultimate thing, and whatever the cost, it would be worth it! Have you ever thought about it? although I imagine not, considering how much life's commitments will already occupy you..

X simo, sorry for the off topic, just to cover my bases before you send me a virus to punish me =D =D =D

Thank you for the consideration. Who knows in the future, but as you well say, time is indeed very short.

Thank you for the compliments. It might sound reductive, but experience counts a lot. What Simone says about the tuning stability obviously depends on how the pedal/ankle moves and how the tuner "feels" and stops at the right position. It can be learned; there is no secret. There are also "easy" and "difficult" pianos. The more "harmonic" the piano is, the easier it is to tune. Inharmonicities, on the other hand—stemming from very old pianos and/or with rusty strings, or those with very low or short notes, or from instruments with slightly oversized scale gauges to increase sound intensity and even out tensions—must be compensated for with skill and taste. The ear is always "Prince" of the choices, in my opinion.