Mascioni Organ

Tremolo: yes, I am aware of the effect on string instruments, but I was wondering how perceptible this is on a wind instrument and, above all, in an environment with as much reverb as that of a church.

The high B that doesn't sound: what would the inspection consist of...? If, by chance, it isn't anything difficult, I could try. Obviously only in case of simple analysis.

Consumption: Unfortunately, I have no idea where the compressors are. Most likely they haven't been checked for years :/ If I were to ask you for an estimate... electrical consumption of a two-manual organ, pedalboard, 30 stops? I am aware that this is an unusual question.

The toe studs: R1 and R2 insert fixed combinations of stops. Usually, what kind of combinations are they?

Choice of stops: I have noticed that in most pieces of organ literature, registration indications are present. Sometimes abbreviations are also indicated (e.g., G.O., Grand'Organo). Regarding this, what do "C.L." and "Sweller" mean?

Thank you for the precious information

From my point of view, the tremolo can be heard

In my opinion, regarding various malfunctions, one would need to examine the organ because between trackers, windchests, a possible pipe clogged by dust, etc. ... it's quite an undertaking...

Regarding consumption, I agree with Silbermann; it doesn't depend on how many stops, manuals, etc., you have. Aside from the power of the electric fans, the usage also matters... that is, how much air you consume. It is not an unusual question, it is a question that is impossible to answer without data ....which are also difficult to obtain.

For me, you could even turn off all the electrical devices, take a meter reading, play only the organ for about an hour, and then read the meter again.

As for combinations, every organ has its own; a good ear or the organ builder's technical sheet can help you.

Registration indications are sometimes provided by the composer, but unlike the piano, every organ has its own connotation. For example, the plenum of an Italian organ is very different from that of a German organ... so the question arises spontaneously: when Bach indicates 'ripieno', what is he asking of us?

The swell is a mechanism that allows for the gradual insertion, one by one, of all the organ stops, creating a crescendo of intensity. It is usually controlled by a pedal operated by the foot.

In Lombard organs, there is the "Lombard free combination" (I think your C.L.) also called "prepared combination." Stops can be preselected, and by pressing a pedal, they are automatically engaged or disengaged.

As far as more precise technical information is concerned, I sent an email to the same Mascioni. They told me they will provide me with material from their historical archive.

I understood what the sweller is; in my case (or perhaps always) it is the left rod.

Bad news regarding the tremolo, then: I don't hear it, and I am afraid because there might be nothing to hear

You could still get hold of some texts, for a general overview even Bossi/Tebaldini "Metodo teorico pratico per organo" might be good.

A reading of this text, downloadable in PDF, wouldn't hurt....appetite comes with eating.

http://www.free-scores.com/partitions_telecharger.php?partition=55919

Manari, Raffaele
ART OF REGISTRATION.

Composer: Manari, Raffaele
Instrumentation: Organ solo
Genre: Methods
Publisher: MACHELLA, MAURIZIO
Date: 1931
Licence: Public domain
Difficulty:
Overall rating:

If the subject is of interest, more in-depth vertical studies can always be done later

Francesco wrote:

Bad news for the tremolo, then: I don't hear it, and I'm afraid because there is nothing to hear

Try searching for the word tremolo in the PDF I indicated to you; you will realize for yourself that one cannot speak of something that cannot be heard. Therefore, if you hear nothing, it isn't working

Thank you very much for the PDF: it seems like a very rich document, it will certainly be useful to me

Thinking about this afternoon (I will probably go play), I am curious about the acoustics of the church.

A few weeks ago I tried to make some recordings (not in the sense of choosing stops), and I noticed that, listening back, the reverb is really significant. Assuming I have the possibility to climb up to the instrument's facade, do you think it would be foolish to place four panoramic microphones there to record?

The important thing is that it remains within the realm of reverb; as for microphone placement, it depends on the result you want to achieve, Thesimon is certainly the most suitable person to guide you best. Try sending him a private message if he doesn't read this topic

Sorry, but I wasn't reading this topic.

Recording the organ is extremely difficult and there is no standard positioning. The positioning and type of microphone depend on:

- The sound we want to achieve

- The layout of the church, since the church acts as a soundboard for the organ

- The type of organ

The best method is to perform measurements with appropriate measuring instruments. The beast to be slain is the evaluation of the nodal resonance points, where low frequencies are not heard. The problem is that these vary their position based on the frequency emitted. A measuring instrument is essential, and only this, combined with a good ear, can help us. Omnidirectional microphones are usually very linear, and their choice compared to cardioid polar pattern microphones depends heavily on the amount of reverb we want to capture. I would use omni microphones anyway. After all, the high amount of reverb in the church is an essential characteristic for the organ. If you try to record at the height of the pipes, the sound will be atrocious. In any case, microphones should be at human height (that is, at the height of the listener who is not near the pipes). The organ sound that we are used to listening to, that we know and that we like, is what is perceived in the central nave of the church.

I understand

So the best solution is at head height, in the central nave, avoiding nodal resonance points. Generally speaking, what could be the points where reverberation is minimal? (e.g.: middle of the central nave, central nave near the altar, at the entrance...) For example, at the console, the reverb is present to an quite acceptable extent, but when listening to the performance of faster passages, something is lost...

In the meantime, an update on malfunctions. A trumpet C (SI) is completely mute (you can barely hear the air passing through, but no kind of sound). If I am not mistaken, the trumpet in the organ falls under the reed category... The problem, therefore, could be attributable to the reed?

Who can indicate to me (indicatively) the cost of the main maintenance interventions on an organ (considering the size and number of stops, which I indicated previously)?

Many thanks in advance for the contribution you are providing

There is no price list and the interventions are generally expensive... you absolutely have to consult an organ builder because too many factors are at play: history, distance from the instrument, type of intervention, etc.

Ok... So the question turns to: how much can an organ builder's inspection cost (the inspection only)?

In my opinion, quotes should all be free, in the sense that you shouldn't have to pay to compare two or three different offers. The second point, in my view, is that the probability of actually landing the job must be tangible. What do I mean? If you call them, you will still need to refer to the implementation project, dates (deadlines)... I mean, if the parish priest has no money and there are no donors... it would be unconvincing and nobody would come.

... and I doubt that someone will come and tell you in the preliminary phase why a pipe isn't sounding; at most, in a proposal, you will find "general" items that will bring the organ up to full working order (including the reed that doesn't sound)

Then if they are there and you want to make the inquiry... well, it doesn't hurt to try. Clearly, you cannot turn the site inspection into an interrogation....

To understand the extent of a job, it is legitimate to call an organ builder... who shouldn't charge anything for a site visit; however, I understand Egidio's point. Don't take this the wrong way Francesco, but presenting yourself "only" as a curious fifteen-year-old, I don't know how much of a half-day's work an organ builder would be willing to invest. I suggest you have the parish priest call them anyway... if he doesn't agree, it is clear that the project might not get off the ground.

Anyway, trying never hurts and no one is forbidding you from asking if they come for free... not everyone is tied to vile money, and they might even give you an order of magnitude for the cost...

...eventually, you can play the remuneration card, telling him that you will pay him for the site visit

Tremolo is not a stop, and for this reason it does not have a number above it (which indicates the measurement in feet of that stop) but is indeed a vibrato effect. A special valve actuated by the control makes the air shake in the windchest pipes. It is as if you were blowing into a flute while someone shakes your ribcage.

The B that does not sound with any stop is a key channel problem. It could be the pallet of that tracker, sometimes difficult to reach, especially on these instruments (today Mascioni works differently). If some reeds do not sound (trumpets, etc...) it could be anything. If they haven't been used for a long time, it is possible that the tongues have stuck and therefore "do not start" upon the opening of the air.

The pedals: R1 and R2 activate the reeds of the 1st and 2nd manual respectively. (the keyboards are called manuals)
If you don't know exactly what a reed is, first do some research on the internet, then we can talk about it if necessary.
This, in bits and pieces, is not a bad description: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripieno_%28registro_d%27organo%29

Electric consumption depends heavily on the type of instrument: age, applied technologies, installed accessories, etc.. and in any case, it is never high.

PS: compressors do not exist. They are called electric blowers and replace the hand pumps that were used in ancient times (usually there is only one; only in truly large instruments are there more).

And anyway, these serve only to supply air to the instrument's bellows, which act as a ready air reserve and determine the operating pressures. Keep in mind that the pressures involved are very low, similar... to be understood.... to a person's strong breath.

Francesco wrote:

1. I noticed that the high B of the first keyboard does not sound, with no stops engaged. Most likely a console problem, right?

See above. It is usually not the console; the problem is in the windchest.

2. Between the two keyboards, there are small pistons with certain dynamics indicated (p, mf, f, etc.; see attached photo). Are they an alternative to the pedal (which operates the light indicator typical of Mascioni organs, see photo), or are they independent? If they are independent, how do they affect the sound?

Those are called fixed combinations. They are indeed combinations of stops, defined by the manufacturer, to activate stops based on the desired sound expression (pianissimo, forte, fortissimo). They are a "ready-made meal" suitable for a quick recall of a sound and are very useful for those who do not know how to register. I never use them.

I would draw attention to the two regulating pedals located above the pedalboard, in the center of the console, which are called expression pedals (staffe).

The first one on the left (always, in every instrument) is the GRADUATOR (expression pedal). In this instrument, you can see its action specifically on the indicator you mentioned. This "gradually" inserts all the stops, from the foundation stops to the mutations (practically, if you look at the row of stop tablets, it inserts them from left to right one by one). This is also usually set by the manufacturer.

3. There are two small pistons for the "Automatic pedal" function, one for engagement and the other for disengagement. Despite my attempts, I haven't been able to understand quite what they are. The same goes for the two "Pedal" pistons, one on the first keyboard and the other on the second.

The automatic pedal does nothing more than make the pedalboard play the lowest note you press on the manual. For example, if you play a C major chord, the console will automatically make the pedal play the note C. Obviously, you must engage the stops on the pedalboard, otherwise no sound will come out. This is also useful for those who do not know how to play the pedalboard, but it is only useful if you want to reinforce the fundamental of a chord in the bass.

The pedal pistons should serve (then check, because I am not sure about these Mascioni consoles) to link that manual to the pedalboard. In practice, you play the stops of that manual on the pedals.

4 and last. What are the cancellers (annullatori)? O.o

The cancellers, as the name suggests, cancel the function of a family of stops. They do not allow them to be activated.

Let me explain with a practical example: we said that the graduator adds stops in sequence. Suppose that at a certain point the graduator of your instrument inserts the reeds, but you do not want them to be inserted as you increase power. You cancel them! That way they cannot be inserted.

The same applies to other cancellers. By cancelling the family of stops, it is as if you had physically removed them from the instrument.

First of all, thank you all for your contributions

Following your precious indications and other hours spent with the instrument, I am beginning to have clearer ideas. I am getting used to the various stops (but especially the couplers) and I am realizing that certain recordings I made not long ago are in poor taste. For example, it seems to me that I have understood that a "difficult" stop to couple is the Voce Umana (in my case an 8', on the I manual): it creates a very interesting effect if coupled with the Principale or a Traverso.

Moreover, my prayers have been answered: someone took the trouble to fix the tremolo: now it works, and it can be heard very clearly.

Unfortunately, as I spend hours playing, I realize new malfunctions. Among the most recent are a C of the Bourdon (II manual) that does not sound and faults in the electromechanics of the adjustable combinations: out of 5, number 1 is unable to disengage stops already engaged that would not be part of the combination, number 3 does not control the couplers and the 16' bass of the pedalboard.

Despite everything, for me playing this instrument remains grand

A little technical question. Can dust be the cause of extra noises? If so, how to resolve it?

The human voice is a beating register. This means it takes on the characteristics of beats.

This register is tuned slightly sharp (or flat) and should only be coupled with the Principal 8'. The effect resulting from the beats will be an oscillating sound. A bit like a wave.

With other registers, it wouldn't have its intended effect; it would just be an out-of-tune register, or it wouldn't be heard at all. In fact, it is usually excluded from being included with the swell box or the tutti precisely because it must be coupled with the principal.

What do you mean by 'extra sounds'? Pipes that sound slightly alone due to air leaks? Because that is what is usually meant.

No, dust is not the cause of this. Dust accumulated on the mouths could only cause slight tuning issues, but nothing obvious, and anyway only in the small pipes, where the lip opening is microscopic.

Try making these register combinations:

On the first manual:

- Principale - octave - XV good for something solemn, less than the ripieno you get by adding XIX and ripieno 4F

- Flauto traverso 8 and camino 4 = sweet, round and cantabile on the highs

- Principale and flauto camino = as above but with fuller bass and a more vigorous sound.

On the second manual:

- Bordone and flautino 2 = ..... listen to it! Make something fast with it!

- Gamba voce celeste (maybe with the expressive swell shutters closed - right pedal down - feel that ethereal sound)

- Bordone and all the flutes 4 - XII and 2 (it is called cornetto)

- Principalino and flauto in XII

- Bordone and Oboe (maybe with the right hand while accompanying with the 8' flute of the 1st with the left)

Then listen to the difference between the two 4' flutes, both in the same register, but the one on the 2nd is more cantabile and bright, while the camino one is more pasty; listen to how the intonation changes as you go up octaves.

The same for the Octave 4. Same register but on the 1st manual it sounds stronger and more vigorous, on the 2nd sweeter and softer. (here you understand what intonation means).

And obviously the bordone alone, the sweetest register there is.