Max Seiler antique piano

6000 euros for a late 1800s upright? A Seiler? There are very dignified uprights around for sale from private individuals that are 10, 15, or 30 years old, not necessarily Yamaha or Kawai, practically like new for less than half the price... It's up to you if you want to give money away to get something that is worth at most the cost of the intervention and is still a 120-year-old instrument with all the usual ifs and buts...

Dear giovannig, first of all thank you for the answer,

Not having much knowledge on the subject, I am not aware of all the ifs and buts you are talking about. I saw an instrument with almost all new parts, so I assume it is brand new in every respect. If that is not the case, I would like to understand why. Online I have found several discussions on the subject and they all talk about problems with vintage instruments that sooner or later arise and therefore you have to work on them and replace parts... but in this case, everything has already been replaced. Could you explain it to me better?

As far as deals on the internet are concerned, I have been looking online for a month and I haven't found anything exciting yet, other than the usual refurbished Japanese ones that START from 30 years old and up, Chinese instruments from people who want to get rid of them, vintage pianos that, as you say, require heavy work, and a few Europeans, but we are talking about situations where I might have to drive maybe 200km just to see it, and then add transport costs and regulation/tuning interventions..

I don't know, anyway I am in no hurry, I will continue searching!

Thank you!

First of all, you have to evaluate the instrument face to face because "replacing everything" means nothing; it can be a good thing or even a bad thing.

If you are going to use it for amateur purposes, a well-restored piano can be very satisfying, more so than a Yamaha, but it requires extra attention and is a level of care that not everyone can afford... it is nonetheless a choice that must be evaluated at the right price, not at double its value.

I know dealers who cannot sell beautiful vintage Steinways for less than that price, some still original or with few conservative interventions, which preserve both their value and functionality,

Why do you have to move 200 km? Do you live in an unfortunate place?

Thanks for the clarifications, indeed I wouldn't mind spending half as much, of course. I was evaluating the tone, which is wonderful, full, not too bright or metallic. However, if you say that more recent analogous instruments can be found, I will keep looking. I must say I haven't searched in the Milan area yet.. I am from the province of Novara and I have visited all the local dealers. If it's not much trouble to travel from Milan, I'll consider it; do you have an idea of how much a transport of about 80 km costs? I am on the 1st floor (detached house, no neighbor problems fortunately).

Because to tell you the truth, the idea of buying a used one doesn't exactly excite me, too many variables to consider: how long has it not been played? How and where was it kept, near a stove? In a damp garage? Does it have problems that were patched up and might reappear?

That's why I was evaluating the instruments from this restorer, because I was comparing them to new instruments. He has prices ranging from €4000 to €6000.

The alternative would be a new one, but with my budget I can only reach a Yamaha B2 at most. And reasoning like that, then I would get a B1, spend as little as possible and continue studying for a few more years, then have a resellable instrument and think about something more important and high-quality.

In the end, I play for pleasure, but I follow the classical path and want to learn well.

Hi, I am writing to you because I recognize in you the same enthusiasm that some have, and that I also had, when purchasing my first grand piano.

On that occasion, I remember that I would try out pianos here and there as I encountered them, and I must say that I fell in love with each one of them, with their strengths and weaknesses.

I don't know, even today—and I don't know if it only happens to me or also to you—when I look for something after exhaustive research to evaluate which among the favorites to pick from the deck, I end up returning to choose or preferring the first one I had seen.

So, I purchased a used one that seemed full of promise and expectations. After the initial enthusiasm, I began to feel the first dissatisfactions and uncertainties.

Recently, I decided to face and resolve these problems; I asked for help on the forum and discovered a rather bitter truth, more from a psychological than an economic standpoint: my piano is not quite what I thought it was. It also seemed all new and shiny, but the action is truly makeshift. Today, if I were to identify the object of my dreams, before buying it, I would have an appraisal issued that certifies the actual state of things. I understand it is an expense, but I consider it a saving and a guarantee. Finally, even to me, it seems like a high price for an old upright. As Giovanni says, just because everything is new doesn't mean it is suitable and optimized for that piano.

I am experiencing this personally.

I wish you luck with your new purchase.

I also thank you for your kind reply,

as for the seller/restorer, I only know what he told me: he has been restoring and repairing for more than 30 years, collaborates and provides instruments for events and concerts in the area, often with a tail of 120 years; I have seen both the piano and the photos of what he says.

Regarding the instruments, he told me that he issues a warranty, I don't remember if it is for 3 or 5 years.

As for the price, he told me that normally for an upright fully restored like the one he is asking for, it would be about 4,500 if it is wood-colored because he does it himself, whereas for instruments like the Seiler he asks for more because, being polished black, he has a separate company do it. And again, if he doesn't touch the cabinet at all but only works on the interior, the price drops even further and he gives them for 3000/3500.

That is all; anyway, I am taking your advice very well into consideration, also because you don't have to sell me anything and that means a lot.

As I have already said, I think I will start looking for a new entry-level one, just for the first years of study, so that it is reliable and above all resalable, when in x years I will have clearer ideas and a bit more experience, and not just in playing!

If it has been finished in polyester high gloss black, it is already an error for an antique piano.

Furniture or not, it matters little; what matters is the instrument.... I tell you from experience that for a used item of that type, the price is high, you can find better in my opinion. Try new ones, recent used ones, etc.... that way you will realize the differences. Curb your enthusiasm and think, because it is also good to invest money correctly.

There are many shops to see not too far from you, visit them.

vantir wrote:

Hi, I am writing to you because I recognize in you the same enthusiasm that some have—and that I also had—when purchasing my first grand piano.

On that occasion, I remember that I would go around testing pianos wherever I encountered them, and I must say that I fell in love with each one of them, with all their merits and flaws.

I don't know, even today—and I don't know if it only happens to me or also to you—when I look for something after exhaustive research to evaluate which among the favorites to pick from the deck, I end up returning to choose or preferring the first one I had seen.

So, I purchased a used one that seemed full of promise and expectations. After the initial enthusiasm, I began to feel the first dissatisfactions and uncertainties.

Recently, I decided to face and resolve these problems; I asked for help on the forum and discovered a rather bitter truth, more from a psychological than an economic standpoint: my piano is not quite what I thought it was. It also seemed all new and shiny, but the action is truly cobbled together. Today, if I were to identify the object of my dreams, before buying it, I would have an appraisal issued that certifies the actual state of things. I understand it is an expense, but I consider it a saving and a guarantee. Finally, even to me, it seems like a high price for an old upright. As Giovanni says, just because everything is new doesn't mean it is suitable and optimized for that piano.

I am experiencing this personally.

I wish you luck with your new purchase.

Look, I am very sorry about your situation; it shows that the Piano market is dying, full of speculators and subterfuge.

Anyway, from this experience, by fixing what you can (don't spend any more money on it, except for the minimum for materials like springs or hammer felt/rollers), you will learn many things and your next purchase will be more secure. It has happened to many; if you read the forums, they are full of cases like yours.... fix the major issues as I told you in the other post, try to recover as much of the money spent as possible (if you manage to resell it later or trade it in, though it is difficult for this type of piano) and buy another one... This experience will serve you to understand more!

Watch out for the "5-year warranties"... After they have delivered the instrument to your home, they won't be seen again...

I also think that a used and restored piano can be a leap into the dark for an inexperienced person. Unless one can be guided and guaranteed by a trusted local technician, a new one is certainly more advisable.