Modulations and surroundings

In effect, Geppino

geppino12575 wrote:

What more is there to know about this...?

Tantamount as I was also reading:

Frank wrote:

it would practically involve applying the "rules" of tonality

mmhm, Bianca, can you give us an example of an algorithm. From what I knew, even a recipe is an algorithm; it can be transcribed if one knows the steps to create a dish... or in parallelism ... a modulation.

I would create paths for myself:

-modulate to the key of the V degree

-modulate to the key of the IV degree

-modulate to the key of the III degree

-etc.

And then, for each choice, the various paths (techniques, steps, stages, whatever) that are practicable or predefined.

Maybe it can help

http://www.luciocadeddu.com/tesi/Cannas_triennale.pdf

No Bianca, the point of view of the document I posted is different

geppino12575 wrote:

I didn't understand what is meant by "algorithm".... perhaps it is better to give some examples. Let's take Bianca's initial example: modulating from C major to E major.

One of the chord sequences (or techniques or "algorithms" if you will...) to connect these two distant keys is the enharmonic spelling of the dominant seventh.

1) Start from C major

2) transform the chord on the I degree into a dominant chord (C E G Bb)

3) enharmonically alter the seventh so that it becomes an altered sixth (C E G A#). At the moment of enharmonic alteration, we have already passed to the new key; from now on, we will reason in E.

4) the altered VI chord resolves to the V degree harmonized with 4,6 (i.e., II rev) (B D# F# B), note the A# resolving to B

5) V degree in 3,5 (B D# F#), eventually with the seventh

6) resolution to the E major chord (I degree of the new key).

This is the algorithm, understood as a process for solving a specific question; now, to generalize, we can say that with this technique of enharmonic spelling of the dominant seventh, one can modulate to keys that are a major third, a major sixth, a semitone lower, and some other keys away (I don't remember all the possibilities precisely right now).

What more is there to know about this...?

you are right, geppino, in this case nothing more needs to be known and the algorithm is (almost) well done.

as I was saying, in this phase I was focusing on modulation via common chords, so I went straight to that part:

cit.

"

MODULATION BY MEANS OF A PIVOT CHORD

The possibility of modulating to distant keys using pivot chords remains to be mentioned, a possibility that finds limits in the small number or absence of common chords between keys that differ by more than one alteration in the...

"

According to my approach instead (all to be verified, hence the post I started), these limits can be easily overcome if one considers the various chords of the diatonic scale in different keys as a graph on which to apply specific pathfinding functions (for example Dijkstra, A-star, etc...)"

Bianca wrote:

According to my approach instead (all to be verified, hence the post I started), these limits can be easily overcome if one considers the various chords of the diatonic scale in different keys as a graph upon which to apply specific pathfinding functions (for example Dijkstra, A-star, etc...)

Can you give an example? At least for me.. poor mortal

Organista94 wrote:

Indeed Geppino

Tantamount that I was also reading:

mmhm, Bianca, can you give us an example of an algorithm. From what I knew, even a recipe is an algorithm; it can be transcribed if one knows the steps to create a dish... or in parallelism ... a modulation.

sure

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algoritmo_di_Dijkstra

Aspirante wrote:

Can you exemplify? At least for me.. poor mere mortal

as above

Bianca wrote:

sure

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algoritmo_di_Dijkstra

But the "movement" path schema cannot take into account the pillars of tonality, or am I wrong? If so, how? Just to understand. Thanks in advance

Aspirante wrote:

But the "movement" path schema cannot take into account the pillars of tonality, or am I wrong? If so, how? Just to understand. Thanks in advance

precisely, that is exactly what is difficult.

Generally, every node (or branch) of a path has its own "weight" / "function". It all depends on establishing its value, as well as choosing / constructing the graph appropriately. From the tests I am conducting, almost surprising results are being found, but it is still in a pre-beta phase (to be generous )

What leaves me a bit perplexed and for which I find almost nothing regarding it...

Scope of possibilities

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/618-tipi-di-sostituzione

According to my approach instead (all to be verified, hence the post I started), these limits can be easily overcome if one considers the various chords of the diatonic scale in different keys as a graph upon which to apply specific pathfinding functions (for example Dijkstra, A-star, etc...)

Well, I can't follow you on this, I don't know what a graph is and I don't know if it has anything to do with music... I'll settle for that little diagram...

Bianca wrote:

What leaves me a bit perplexed and for which I find almost nothing regarding it...

In my opinion, it's because an algorithm isn't needed, but rather knowledge. Of course, one could derive an algorithm, but then who would it serve? Or rather, would it be educational to write one so as to stimulate it as a different learning methodology... but the substance is that in the end, once the knowledge is acquired, perhaps it loses its utility. Or rather, one needs to master the paths in order to write music or improvise.

Well, I hope I have been clear.

If I understood correctly, you lack a general vision of all the possibilities in order to then codify them, in the strict sense of the term.

Reviewing my old topic, 3 basic criteria:

- Secondary dominants
- Tritone substitution
- Modal interchange

Bianca wrote:

exactly, that is precisely the difficult part.

Practically you should also encode the functions

geppino12575 wrote:

According to my approach instead (all to be verified, hence the post I started), these limits can be easily overcome if one considers the various chords of the diatonic scale in different keys as a graph upon which to apply specific pathfinding functions (for example Dijkstra, A-star, etc...)

Well, I can't follow you on this; I don't know what a graph is and I don't know if it has anything to do with music... I'll settle for that little diagram...

which is more than sufficient!

Besides, I don't think at all that what I am doing leads to anything better. As I was saying, it is just an exercise / in-depth study that can also be fun. It is clear that the beauty of any musical work has little to do with this

Frank wrote:

Anyone who improvises uses it (even if they don't know it ...)

... they know, they know ...

Anyway, I generally agree with the various forum users who have chimed in. In general, an exercise to reorganize basic patterns using a programming language can be useful (especially at the beginning), but it has the value of an Excel spreadsheet or a PowerPoint presentation

JazzMania wrote:

Anyway, I generally agree with the various forum users who have chimed in. In general, an exercise to reorganize basic patterns using a programming language can be useful (especially at the beginning), but it has the same value as an Excel spreadsheet or a PowerPoint presentation

bah, I really don't think so, unless there is the coding we are talking about in the excel sheet

Bit wrote:

If I understood correctly, you are missing a general overview of all the possibilities in order to then encode them, in the strict sense of the term.

i didn't understand

Bianca wrote:

well, I really don't think so, unless there is the encoding we are talking about on the excel sheet

Well, you yourself say that it doesn't need to have an artistic and sonic result, so it is a sort of matrix. Moreover, the pseudo-encoding you linked is nothing more than a succession of characters that can be slipped into Word and is more or less in Italian. It can still be understood. (in fact, you even reported it here on the forum).

If instead the ambition were to develop skills in the musical field, leave the PC keyboard and get to the piano keyboard ... you will see that just the approach will completely change your way of seeing and hearing music, it will surely enrich it.