Nephew Karl

Hello Azzurro,

You are the only one who hasn't had a quick response.....

No. It is just a very poorly executed cinematic fiction. Beethoven detested his sister-in-law and her first daughter (see the canon sketches "Fettluemerl und Bankert haben triumphirt", Hess 260). He evidently loved sleeping with the wives of his friends or with prostitutes (it was like that at the time; now, in these moral and civil times, people go with cross-dressers, but everyone is free to do as they please). However, he would never have gone with his brother's wife under any circumstances. As the notebooks testify. Let's grant him a minimum of moral direction, poor man!

You know, Armando, relying heavily on memory, perhaps Surian is putting it into the terms presented by Azzurro... anyway, I don't know where I read it, but when I read the topic, the little story didn't seem new to me...

Dear Marta, there is only one way to proceed in research. (I mean all research, whether it be iconographic, musicological, graphological, Egyptological, or whatever may come to mind). The system is this: THE SOURCES. One must never trust tertiary, quaternary (and Cenozoic) sources. Erroneous nineteenth-century sources of Victorian sexophobia, twentieth-century sources steeped in Nazism, Fascism, Communism, or other amenities of that sort; sources from these wretched years where a bulimic and televised spectacle, often a charlatan and a cheap cookware salesman, reigns undisturbed. Like the terrible film "Amata Immortale," precisely, which isn't even worth a comment. It is one thing to have a musical apocrypha, made for profit, for ignorance, or out of hope for the new. It is quite another to have an apocrypha or even a wretched lie, intended to throw sausage sauce on increasingly seasoned pasta. In this way, B. becomes the lover of his sister-in-law, but also, in turn, homosexual (actually, I don't see the problem with this), impotent (with this as well), a plagiarist, pre-Nazi (or Communist), etc..... This is no small matter; it is a mirror of these indecent and vulgar times. Look at the news: what utility is there in discovering that a woman, besides being killed, was also raped? (perhaps she wasn't, but let's add the famous sauce to our pasta, then cream, then cheese, and off we go into an orgy of food-useless-news-trash for the consciences!). Thus I discover that Michelle l'Amour, the nakedest woman in the world, plays Beethoven with her ass (sic! and sorry) http://tv.liberoquotidiano.it/video/105797/Donna_suona_Beethoven_con_le_chiappe.html (many do it with their own instrument, though), that Für Elise was not by Beethoven http://www.corriere.it/cultura/09_ottobre_12/beethoven_per_elisa_bc80adc6-b748-11de-b239-00144f02aabc.shtml (I assure you that Nohl was a great man and I hope he can return from the afterlife in the form of a Zombie to properly punish these "beasts"). Or that it was a script: http://it.arti.musica.classica.narkive.com/xpLE3n8m/beethoven-copione-2 (Here we are in collective hysteria; it would be enough to see the publication and placement of Mozart's K50 manuscript....). Okay. Let's look at the sources: 1) Beethoven's own writing which confirms to us: I am my sister-in-law's lover, homosexual, impotent, and a script... and also Venusian (reliable) 2) letters, conversation notebooks, trial records (almost reliable) 3) comments of the time (already less reliable) 3) memories (these, then, can only serve as references; they are not reliable at all, even if true.)........ Everything else is boredom, as a worthy epigone of this cheap infomercial society would say.

Fraternity

OrlandiArmando wrote:

That Für Elise was not by Beethoven http://www.corriere....44f02aabc.shtml

A myth has just collapsed for me, at least the real composer is named Ludwig

Armando, you are a marvel. Thank you!!!

I have the manuscript of the bagatelle right before my eyes: in reality, Nohl merely limited himself to adding a few harmonics..... Anyone among us would have done the exact same thing. As always, the sensational prevails over the rational.... It would be more interesting to recover the 1822 manuscript of Per Elisa (and let's call it that too)......

... in all artistic activities (including any human and non-human production) the "anonymous" have always been many and, even if it is desirable that there be or one can provide a maternity ("semper certa"), in my opinion it is not necessary to insist on providing a "paternity" if it proves difficult!!! what the "signature" does is the concept of beautiful and expressive of the highest "strings of the soul and/or the mind of man," which is why they are universally passed down and proposed to any potential aliens in space explorations.... The "anonymous," calculating the immense amount of production lost since "humanity" has existed for various reasons (opposing ideologies, catastrophic events, severe self-criticism of suicidal artists, lack of appreciative friends for recovery etc, etc), are many in any field and if someone among you, in the musical field, knew someone and proposed them to us, it could be a fitting tribute to their silent greatness....