Piano Technique Video Lesson No. 3

Guys, I wanted to propose something!! why don't we put all the compliments, questions and discussions from every video tutorial into a single discussion?? we would all benefit, including the forum which would become easier to consult and follow.

Hello, I am an apprentice, and I am eagerly looking forward to the fourth lesson. I must say it has opened my mind, as I have always been convinced of the goodness of physical exercise (Hanon) intended as physiotherapy to increase muscle strength, when the opposite is true: every key weighs only 50 grams!

I have been restarting my studies of classical piano since July after at least twenty years of strumming modern music (liscio, pianobar etc etc) and I wanted to make a small note regarding technique lessons.

It is true that the key has little mass and the arm in a broad sense must interact with the fingers; however, I wouldn't want self-taught players to be misled: the fingers of an average pianist must be by far stronger (I hope the meaning of 'strong' in this context is understood) than those of the average person.

In short, in my humble opinion, a self-taught player who has not surpassed 2 years of piano must—and I emphasize must—constantly practice exercises aimed at finger strength and independence while keeping the wrist as immobile as possible.

By exercise, I mean any combination of notes that does not result in a fluid and secure execution. It is not necessary to study all of Hanon's exercises.

In Invention No. 8, I discovered that my left thumb is weak, so I started doing those descending passages over and over every time I began a study session; they aren't quite right yet, but awareness of the problem and mechanical practice are yielding results.

Tone color will be studied after the "finger-only" foundation is consistent.

This forum is mostly followed by self-taught players, and I believe it is useful to keep this in mind.

PS: In lesson no. 4, I would especially like to see the movements that should NOT be done.

Thank you

Congratulations on restarting your piano studies. Thank you for expressing your criticisms regarding the videos and the approach I chose to take. I respect your conviction. It is my conviction that fingers never play by themselves. When in the first video I mentioned "forced" study aimed at independence, which may come at the expense of interdependence and coordination, I meant exactly that one must grow with this perspective from the very first years. "Mechanical" exercise always yields a result, but one must keep the final goal in mind. I have spoken several times in other posts about how it is possible to develop "strength" by practicing relaxation. A complex discussion that does not see a single way out, precisely because it is complex. The famous "sum of the parts" risks not reaching the "whole" if one insists for long periods on a certain phase, perhaps, without perceiving a meaning or immediate realization. I mean that if the thumb does not work on a certain passage of Invention No. 8, it is possible to try to identify why or identify "what not to do" in order to then definitively, or almost, apply it to subsequent similar passages encountered in piano literature.

Regarding what "not to do," there cannot exist a decalogue or a set formula. Beyond examples that will come to mind as I record the videos, it is interesting to note how each of us assumes positions and practices gestures that are subjectively different depending on one's own body conformation. In a two-note chord Bb-C, fingerings 2-5 vs. 1-5 could both be disapproved. Seeing a student perform, one must understand which of the two is more suitable and easier for their hand conformation. This does not change the fact that it is appropriate to experiment with difficult positions as well, provided they are not awkward, and not to rule out the possibility of overcoming passages that at first glance seem almost unsolvable. This applies to any level of study and preparation. This is what I think, but many things come to mind that perhaps I have already said and that I would like to repeat anyway.

Don't think, however, that I am opposed to the "training" of the early years, done with a bit of pure and simple gymnastics. I believe that in the early years, the young pianist or the simply beginner pianist should not wait to "strengthen" their fingers. It is my conviction (and fortunately not mine alone) that the musical context helps to find the right sound, the right position, the right strength, naturally following a gradual path, not in a single day. After the initial setup, one must immediately begin training on things that are very easy but musical. What can be said about Stravinsky's "Five Finger Studies," which, apart from the fact that it is written in treble clef for both hands, is a musical masterpiece "without thumb passages"!!!!! Building and studying technical aspects on this work, for example, but not only, in my opinion, is equivalent to starting a small growth in the formation of the beginner musician. Much music, color, interpretation, correct finger movement, with the contribution of the wrist, the arm, etc.... I have insisted much on this path with some children in the past and I must say that flowers often bloomed. Sometimes, however, there may be no interest, no passion... little or no talent. And then perhaps not much comes of it. But it is worth trying, while in the next room Hanon is being played for hours.

I also ask you for some examples regarding your ideas. I would be pleased to see some of your examples.

Thank you. Best regards

P.S. I am aware that self-taught students can go "off track"... in fact, more than once I have emphasized the indispensability of a good Teacher who interprets for the student what we find written in books and what is said on the internet.

I will preface with two things: first and foremost, my compliments to the entire staff and particularly to you for your interesting videos that are accessible to everyone; and secondly, I am aware of the two schools of thought (fingers vs. weight) and I am much, much more oriented towards the latter.

My opinion differs from yours essentially on the initial part, while agreeing on the final result: playing relaxed by exploiting every "trick," inter-intra-dependence of weight, anticipating the thought, playing directly on the strings etc. etc.—only in this way can one, at least in potential, sing.

My experience is rare; as already mentioned, I have continued to play modern music and liscio accordion (so I only play with the right hand) for at least twenty years. Besides octave bass notes to follow the chords, the left hand has never done anything else, while the right hand has become bastardized over these years, since the faster you go, the better you are, and it doesn't matter if out of 100 notes, 30 are pieces [muddled], not to mention the lack of phrasing...

Since July, in addition to playing Bach for two hours a day, I listen extensively to professional pianists, comparing their interpretations. No Hanon, scales, or arpeggios. Only the Inventions. And studying them by memory from the very beginning, because if I start by studying them by reading, I am no longer able to visualize the score later while NOT playing them.

Obviously, hands separate until the speed and fluency are slightly above the final speed.

As soon as I notice that a passage isn't working, I cycle and cycle and then cycle again. No rhythm variations, and on this, I agree with thesimon.

When joining the hands, I don't need to look at the right hand. The right hand is bastardized but has achieved full awareness of the keys. It is a sensation that is difficult to explain, but in practice, even after a leap, it goes to the right note without looking and, above all, has a secure grip on every key.

The work I am doing on the right hand is comparable to teaching classical dance to someone who knows how to dance hip-hop well. Refining. And this happens on two levels: physical and, above all, mental (and here the listening to the masters helps).

I also take advantage of Chan when he says that one hand can teach the other through imitation.

Once the left hand has reached the right degree of awareness of the keyboard, I join them.

And I start studying by memory with hands together, dividing and joining various blocks of code.

When I feel confident, I refine the phrasing by exaggerating.

At the end of all this rambling, I record myself. And this first recording serves only to "hype myself up" and relieve performance anxiety.

Now I can enjoy singing the piece and not think about the fingers, the notes, etc. etc.; I am relaxed, and mentally my whole body must ensure that what I sing materializes instantaneously on the instrument.

Hi "lozappatore123" (a beautiful Mario Merola film, by the way), thanks for your great contribution.

Essentially, it seems to me that you are meeting Paolo where he is, and anyway, from what I know of him, Paolo has never wanted to force anyone into the "supremacy of his methods," but rather informs according to his own experience. He knows piano and scientific texts and, in light of this knowledge, draws his considerations. Fortunately, scientific and piano technique treatises are not "metaphorical" texts. They are rather clear treatises and therefore not ambiguous. It is clear that all the knowledge learned from books must then be used in practice, and here I reconnect to Gennarino's reference, in which theory must necessarily be accompanied by practice. In theory, I can know everything, but in practice, I might not know how to do anything. It is therefore necessary to experiment with the acquired notions; only then can we judge whether the theory is actually valid or not. Another important factor to consider is one's own anatomy. Some things can be developed: finger independence, weight development, etc., etc., but one's anatomical base certainly cannot be changed. This is why certain exercises are often very useful to some people and less useful to others. Let me give you an example: I am very tall, about 2 meters, I have a very long arm lever; fast arm staccato definitely costs me a lot of effort. Think of the end of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, where there are broken double octaves on the forte! Surely a person with a shorter lever will exert much less effort. This is why in certain extreme cases I have to deviate from some technical thoughts and start working a bit with the wrist as well, otherwise I am fried. I use my arm, without a doubt, but I try to make less of a movement by keeping my forearm close to the keyboard plane and utilizing the wrist more. I need the forearm to provide weight on the forte, and the wrist to move easily along the keyboard without risking missing notes. Thus, the anatomical factor is of great importance within the study of technique.

All this is independent of learning methods. There are those who feel more comfortable playing from memory, and those who, like me, use the score. Those who play everything directly with both hands, focusing two measures at a time. Those who study in phrases, those who study hands separately; in short, everyone has their own learning method matured through years of experience.

I hope you will agree with what has been said, regards...

hi thesimon, 'the woodcutter' refers to my way of playing!

The reference to everyone's anatomy is absolutely correct. In my case, the genetic defect is having wide middle fingers and so when I have to wedge the middle finger between two black keys very high up, I have to place it a bit obliquely and use weight.

My thought was directed at those who, like me, start studying after age 30. And I believe that at our age the fingers are less flexible compared to very young people, and that is why I consider it essential to dedicate oneself to articulation with an immobile wrist for the first two years. Obviously, in parallel, one can also acquire weight technique, but always placing finger strengthening as the very first objective.

Regards and in anticipation of lesson number 4, thank you in advance

Ahahahah, funny allusion to the nickname, but let's get to serious matters...

You say the right things when you say that warming up the fingers at 50 is not like warming them up at 10; I agree, however, continuing on, I think you fall into a contradiction:

lozappatore123 wrote:

And I believe that at our age fingers are less flexible compared to the very young, and that is why I consider it essential to dedicate oneself to articulation with an immobile wrist for the first two years. Obviously, in parallel, one can also acquire weight technique, but always placing finger strengthening as the very first objective.

Practically speaking, you allude to finger flexibility by placing strengthening as the very first objective.

If by strengthening you mean making sure that when playing loudly the phalanx doesn't bend backward, okay; but if by strengthening you mean training to play loudly with only the fingers, then you are contradicting yourself. We can summarize muscles into two categories: white muscles and red muscles. Red ones are those that develop power, white ones those that develop speed. By overtraining red musculature, one does not benefit movement. Think of bodybuilders, huge but slow, while think of Bruce Lee, scrawny and skinny but a lightning bolt. Training the fingers not to bend backward is fine, but for 50 grams, do you really think there is a need to develop power capable of withstanding 20 kg on a finger at the expense of speed? I mean, why become a bodybuilder of the hand at the expense of speed, when you have Mother Nature combined with your body mass helping you without you losing years developing extreme and excessive strength compared to what is actually needed in the hands. Okay, I believe I am quite strong in my hands after years of study; the initial technique is fine, it must be, but as we progress, we must not continue to do excessive weightlifting on the fingers. Technique is in every musical piece, and technical solutions must be chosen based on what we are playing. With this, I mean that I am not against technical exercises, of course not; I am against the abuse of such exercises. It is useless to spend three hours at the piano doing technique, as you risk serious problems to the tendons and musculature. The secret to fluidity lies in relaxation, and it is also true that such relaxation is obtained with the confidence of having good technical foundations (always without abusing them, though).

Best regards

Mine is not a "biased" opinion....but I would have written the same things as Simone!!!! I agree

I believe that muscular "Strength" has little to do with Hanon exercises, which are instead intended for the "white" muscles; I believe it develops neuromuscular synapses more, in order to develop the ability to send increasingly precise impulses to the right muscle and ever more quickly, I don't know what term you use for that. Anyway, since the very first lessons, I decided to have the girl I teach start the first piece (first in eighth notes), and it is giving me great satisfaction. I follow the videos with interest also to integrate into experience what I have learned, and my teacher's method.

My note was directed at the factor "strengthening the fingers". Keep us updated on this girl's developments!

TheSimon wrote:

I mean, why become a hand bodybuilder at the expense of speed, when you have Mother Nature combined with your body mass helping you without having to spend years developing extreme strength that is excessive compared to what is actually needed in the hands.

Greetings

if your 4th and 5th fingers are not powerful, you won't get anywhere; rotation, the wrist, and everything else are boosters. It doesn't seem to me that two years prioritizing a still-wrist technique is a long time.

Bodybuilding....

to run under 10 seconds you have to be quite big, fides, and very coordinated of course

For old self-taught people like me, the very first thing to learn is how to avoid tendonitis and not continue to exert excessive pressure on the key once the sound has been emitted, and to stop if you feel that your forearm hurts. And this will lead to greater relaxation. After two years, as soon as weight techniques are perfected, it will feel like floating. Come on, we are talking about two years of practicing maybe 3 times a week for an hour a day; I don't think this overtrains anyone.

My case is rare, I repeat, I had piano basics as a child and by always playing I have greater familiarity with my body, so when I perform a piece I know where the deficiencies are. I don't think a self-taught person has this sensitivity, so it is more profitable to use standard exercises.

The matter of Teachers... obviously having a good one following you makes all these discussions superfluous. The reality is that they ask for 35 euros an hour if you're lucky. And many people like me cannot afford this luxury. So, one makes do by gathering every bit of information from forums.

These people are the majority of those who follow this forum, I believe.

And these people, if they do this fast fingering 4-5-4-3-2-1 in a row 4 times, in 80% of cases from the 3rd time on, the 4th finger will play much, much less.

wrist rotations, weight etc etc ok, but after a minimum—and I repeat, a minimum—of finger strengthening

I studied for a few years using the technique of playing with the fingers (completely relaxed).

Playing only with the fingers was a tremendous discovery, even though I found myself spending hours and hours at the piano practicing the maximum extensions of the fingers by striking the key forcefully using only the fingers; I played everything loudly.

In pieces, I was concentrating on technique more than on the notes I was playing and how I played them. The varied color of the notes was determined by the lesser extension and percussion of the key. How many ranges of colors can be achieved this way??

As long as one does pure technical exercises, it can also work, but in practice, to succeed, some rules must be broken (in my opinion).

Example: if I have to do a series of drops, I raise my arm (using the triceps) and subsequently relax it, letting the weight fall so that the fingers are ready to support themselves on the keys. If the speed is moderate, I can manage it, but if I have to do a series of fast drops, how do I do it?? How do I manage my mass?? How does gravity make the arm fall faster than when it doesn't?? How do I play without breaking these rules??

I am not saying that this technique is no good (there are examples of great artists who use it), it may be that I haven't studied it deeply, but for now it leaves me waiting for answers.

P.S. soon, I would like to go visit my old piano teacher and discuss this topic and then talk about it with you!!

Ciao 😉

Great, involve your teacher as well, let's observe other opinions too...

I will talk about free fall in the next video.

... when at 14 years old the 80-year-old music teacher forced my rigid hammer-like fingers, I always obeyed! After more than 20 years of frantic life without breaks... I reopened my beloved piano and.. started again for pure pleasure... without shame for the very low level: what pain in my upper limbs doing the old exercises with the method from back then... I thought it was the bodywork of my body, now rusted... until by chance I found your videos and chose the interpretations suggested by you on YouTube: I had nothing to lose if I let myself go to the technique suggested by you: so I gently let go of hands, wrists, forearms, arms, and shoulders... it's clear that I haven't become younger, but the pain has significantly decreased for the same exercises, and the performance of the pieces is said to be more "serene and personal": a heartfelt thank you...

I am happy to have been of help to you. Obviously, total relaxation is not possible, but you will see that after a short time you will learn to manage these energies that come from the muscles—yes, steady, but tension-free. The wonderful book by Monique Dechausses (I don't remember how it's spelled...) speaks of the "zero point," that is, that point where all the musculature is in equilibrium and tension-free. It is evident that everything begins to be built from this "point," which the pianist must never "lose." Some difficult passages, especially in so-called "transcendental" techniques, involve a momentary effort, but immediately afterward, the relaxation equilibrium is restored. Even in long crescendos, one seeks to dose the energies to make the peak of the effect "explosive," which must be brief and intense. Everything forte and for a long time can lead to stiffness. That obligation of "hammer-like" finger rigidity that your teacher, and not only her, invoked, I would transform into "steadiness." The fingers must often be very solid, but not rigid. Being able, as the terminal part of a complex muscular apparatus, to support the weight and the help of the larger and stronger muscles. A great example is the "rotation" gesture where the "very steady" fingers advantageously receive the "supination" and "pronation" of the hand and forearm.

heartfelt thanks Paolo!!! I only find your writing today because I am still unable to navigate fluently through the various (all interesting!!!) pages of the site. You continue to "tease us" regarding the wrist rotation technique and therefore increase our "desire" for the next lesson: I know that both you and the incredible Simone are "extremely busy" and loving something and living daily life is often difficult to tune into, but since the site is so full of energy and curiosity even from those who inhabit it with competence and friendship, there are no dips in tone: compliments!!!

lozappatore123 wrote:

PS in lesson no. 4 I would like to see especially the movements NOT to do

Thank you

..perhaps among the things not to do, and here I ask the master's confirmation, is that the wrist before the fall must not be held high but low: this is because, at the moment of impact, it must be in a relatively low position precisely to allow for cushioning the blow through the rebound.