pre-academic Composition course - Santa Cecilia

Did you at least attend a music high school?

I am not an expert on pre-academic courses, but there are several indications on the Milan website, just to get an idea

http://www.consmilano.it/fileadmin/storage/didattica/Pre_accademici/Griglie/Scuola_di_Composizione_-_DCPL15_-_COMPOSIZIONE_-_Corso_PRE-ACCADEMICO.pdf

I read

LEGEND:

The requirements necessary for admission to the pre-academic Composition courses for the A.Y. 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 will be:

1 – License in Theory, solfeggio, and musical dictation (old system)

2 – Intermediate Level (II) Certification in Theory, rhythm, and musical perception (new system) from the G. Verdi Conservatory of Milan

The requirements necessary for admission to the pre-academic Composition courses starting from A.Y. 2013/2014 will be:

1 – Intermediate Level (II) Certification in Theory, rhythm, and musical perception (new system) from the G. Verdi Conservatory of Milan

Candidates not in possession of the aforementioned certification will undergo assessment tests of previously acquired skills, intended to establish:

1 – Any educational deficits to be completed during the pre-academic period

2 – Eligibility for the Basic Level pre-academic courses relating to disciplines pertaining to Composition.

(2) Theory, rhythm, and musical perception:

1) One year for each Level (minimum 3 years)

2) The course years are not strictly associated with the general annual sequence but must necessarily be completed one after another.

3) Each year can be repeated once (subject to compliance with point 2 of the requirements necessary for admission).

4) Level exams can be taken independently of the Level reached in other disciplines (subject to the previous points regarding admission).

5) In the Advanced Level, the student may attend an additional, optional, year of in-depth study.

Other instrument:

The student may attend an optional year of a second instrument, in addition to Score Reading, of their choice

Every conservatory is autonomous; the ideal thing to do if the website is not very "informative" is to ask at the administration office..

For example, in Milan I read that a theory and solfeggio license is mandatory, I don't know how much that is actually required... at most they will give you some pending credits (debiti), because nowadays no one would certify it for you anymore

AbateFaria wrote:

Every conservatory is autonomous; the ideal thing to do if the website is not very "informative" is to ask at the administration office..

And indeed

http://www.conservatoriosantacecilia.it/preaccademici,1240.html

Practically, the S. Cecilia website only offers the following 2 PDFs

http://www.conservatoriosantacecilia.it/IMG/pdf/Corsi_preaccademci_regolamento_-2.pdf

and "specifically" this one

http://www.conservatoriosantacecilia.it/IMG/pdf/Corsi_preaccademici_durata_dei_corsi_-2.pdf

The website proposed by Oracolo is much more structured

ehm ehm

http://www.conservatoriosantacecilia.it/preaccademici,1171.html

eh, yes... Natan. When it comes to paying, they are all very precise

http://www.conservatoriosantacecilia.it/IMG/doc/avviso_iscrizioni_on_line_-_pre_accademici.doc

There isn't a shred of indication on the whole site...

In general, I am not aware of any age limits.

aredhelireth wrote:

I should preface that I studied piano for 5 years with a private teacher

It would be necessary to understand what level you have reached; I think that is already a good starting point, in the sense that knowing how to play the pf [piano] is indispensable. Clearly, one is not required to be a pianist, but to have great familiarity with a polyphonic instrument.

aredhelireth wrote:

i have composed some pieces and arranged others without having knowledge of harmony and so on

Maybe you can propose something of your own here

http://www.pianoconc...lho-scritto-io/

Just to gather some opinions

I have a friend who studied composition at Santa Cecilia and who perhaps knows something about pre-academics... give me some time to ask him and I will be able to tell you

waiting for a more precise answer that he should give me tonight, the aforementioned friend gave me some candid advice in advance: "it is not worth enrolling in either the pre-academic course or the actual composition course". He too, like me, has a very low opinion of the Santa Cecilia Conservatory in Rome. He, who is a very good and very likable person, received several threats from a professor, and was never able to get support from any of the institute's bodies (neither student representatives, who are all more or less interested in their own "career", nor even less so the Director).

I have had similar experiences, but in singing classes. And precisely in light of my experiences, rather than advising you not to enroll, I would instead advise you to be very careful with your expectations and your behavior. But we will talk about it again, if you wish.

Thank you all for the answers!

Natan:

Did you at least attend a music high school?

No, I never attended a music high school. In fact, I have a scientific high school diploma and a three-year degree in economics; unfortunately, in my life I made choices different from music that I now want to recover!

Oracolo:

I read

LEGEND:

Required requirements for admission to the pre-academic Composition courses for the 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 academic years will be:

1 – License in Theory, solfeggio, and musical dictation (old system)

2 – Intermediate Level (II) Certification in Theory, rhythm, and musical perception (new system) from the G. Verdi Conservatory of Milan

Required requirements for admission to the pre-academic Composition courses starting from the 2013/2014 academic year will be:

1 – Intermediate Level (II) Certification in Theory, rhythm, and musical perception (new system) from the G. Verdi Conservatory of Milan

Candidates not in possession of the aforementioned certification will undergo assessment tests of previously acquired skills, intended to establish:

1 – Any educational deficits to be fulfilled during the pre-academic period

2 – Eligibility for the Basic Level pre-academic courses related to disciplines pertaining to Composition.

(2) Theory, rhythm, and musical perception:

1) One year for each Level (minimum 3 years)

2) The years of study are not strictly associated with the general annual sequence but must necessarily be completed one after another.

3) Each year can be repeated once (subject to compliance with point 2 of the requirements necessary for admission).

4) Level exams can be taken independently of the Level reached in other disciplines (subject to the previous points regarding admission).

5) In the Advanced Level, the student may attend an additional, optional, year of in-depth study.

Other instrument:

The student may attend an optional year of a second instrument, in addition to Score Reading, of their choice

This worries me a bit... because if it were like this for Santa Cecilia as well, I would seem quite unprepared for admission. As far as solfeggio is concerned, it's okay; I can sight-read well on the entire seven-line staff, and also regarding theory, but I have never done anything with musical dictation or rhythm and musical perception. Then I can't understand how one can obtain the intermediate level certification in theory, rhythm, and musical perception... sincerely, I thought that pre-academic courses were configured as basic courses, in which basic music concepts are re-proposed in relation to the type of course chosen (e.g., in the first year of pre-academic piano they teach you scales within a two-octave range) to then prepare you for entering the three-year degree. So how can I go about obtaining this certification?

Thallo:

"it is not worth enrolling in either the pre-academic or the actual composition course". He also, like me, has a very low opinion of the Santa Cecilia Conservatory in Rome.

My choice regarding Santa Cecilia stems essentially from a matter of distance. The other option is the Conservatory of Frosinone. Unfortunately, I do not have information on the teaching activity of the professors or anything else, so for me it is of fundamental importance and I am really pleased to receive as many opinions as possible from anyone who attends or has attended this conservatory. On the other hand, I know a couple of friends who attend the Conservatory of Frosinone, but in the three-year classes for jazz saxophone and classical saxophone (with E. Colombo), unfortunately, they know little to nothing about the pre-academic composition course.

rather than advising you not to enroll, I would rather advise you to be very careful with your expectations and your behavior. But we will talk about it again, if you wish.

In what sense?

Valchiria:

Maybe you can propose something of your own here

http://www.pianoconc...lho-scritto-io/

Just to gather some opinions

I took a look at this section of the forum, I think it's a great idea! When I record the pieces, I will post them.

AbateFaria:

the ideal thing in case the site is not very "informative" is to ask at the administration office..

i sent an email a few days ago but they haven't replied to me yet"}

aredhelireth wrote:

Oracle: This worries me a bit... because if it were like this for Santa Cecilia as well, I would turn out to be quite unprepared for the admission. As far as solfeggio is concerned, it's okay; I can sight-read well on the entire seven-line staff, and also regarding theory, but I have never done anything with musical dictation, rhythm, or musical perception.

You should probably do it anyway; the tests are at the discretion of the conservatory, so it is plausible that they might dictate a melody to you, like sight-reading something... or perhaps playing a little something. It might be useful to also bring some of your own compositions, in order to comment on them during the admission test. Since it is a double-edged sword, it would be healthy to at least have a teacher look at them to get an opinion... just to avoid an embarrassing situation in case they are well below the desirable standard. One idea, precisely, is to propose them here, just to hear some other voices besides your own... even something as simple as the score.

aredhelireth wrote:

... sincerely, I thought that pre-academic courses were configured as basic courses, in which the basic concepts of music are re-proposed in relation to the type of course chosen

The problem is that if there is high demand... there is selection, and it can only be done at the entry level. I mean, on paper you could gain access knowing "0", but if many highly prepared people register and participate for the ranking list in the call for applications, you would turn out to be eligible but not in the ranking. Ergo, you would not gain access.

Furthermore, in Milan they are notoriously demanding regarding composition (but also piano and violin; on average, those with solid foundations get in... quite unlike starting from "0"), Faria's point holds true: soon there will be no one left around with only the Theory and Solfeggio exam, so make the argument about the eventual "debt".

aredhelireth wrote:

i sent an email a few days ago but they haven't replied to me yet

In my opinion, it would be better for you to go in person to avoid unpleasant "half" misunderstandings... to put it in English. If necessary, a phone call never hurts.

Anyway, composition seems to me like a branch that is too neglected in high schools (musical) and "perhaps" in pre-academic courses; essentially, it doesn't seem to me that there is an alternative to the old lower secondary education or an alternative preparation to what could have been almost an old seventh year.

Furthermore, pre-academic courses should compensate for the lack of attendance at a high school, and in both cases, there is no guarantee of accessing the three-year degree program. Therefore, one could do high school or pre-academic courses... and stop there because they are outside the ranking list.

Access to the three-year degree remains challenging due to the variety and difficulty of the tests; therefore, assuming an eventual preparation as a private candidate, the task remains arduous.

I do not know Rome directly (only through stories from others), I don't know how much to suggest a pre-academic course in general... which perhaps remains the only path in alternative to high school... even if I repeat, in high school nothing is done, neither in composition nor in improvisation (thinking of jazz).

I haven't received more specific answers from that friend of mine yet, I hope to have them as soon as possible.

But I noticed that my words could be misinterpreted :-) when I said weighing one's attitude, I didn't mean "changing your attitude compared to now" :-) I meant that, in my experience, at the Conservatory in Rome many professors evaluate your behavior more than your results. And all according to a perspective that is, in my opinion, outdated. For example, during the first lesson of Scenic Art, my professor told us to photocopy a book that hasn't been in print for years (without giving us a copy, for that matter). That same afternoon, I went to the bookstore to find an alternative. When I proposed this to the professor, he told me not to meddle. I had a similar situation in Music History class, a subject I had to take the exam for even though I already had a bachelor's degree in musicology (the administration refused to validate my three years of music history). But anyway, perhaps my experience was particularly negative and cannot be taken as an example. But in the absence of information from my friend, I can only tell you this: I have met composition professors and students and they were people very tied to obsequiousness, deference, and hierarchies. As far as I know, it is a common thing in large conservatories.

My friend got back in touch. So, he says that practically all the pre-academic courses at Santa Cecilia are "managed" by former students of the internal professors (the call for applications was public but obviously only those who graduated from Santa Cecilia were hired). In effect, they are talking about graduates in composition (in the case of composition), but we aren't talking about the actual internal professors. Class attendance should be more or less weekly, apparently mostly on Saturdays; there is an entrance exam and the annual fee is, believe it or not, 1450 euros, which is much more than a year of an "official" course. The course is supposed to prepare you for the entrance exam for the three-year degree, but it seems quite common that those coming from the pre-academic course do not pass the entrance exam...

thallo wrote:

He says that practically all the pre-academic courses at Santa Cecilia are "managed" by former students of the internal faculty (the call for applications was public, but obviously only those who graduated from Santa Cecilia were hired).

“Interesting”… just like the story of the collaborators that was going around a couple of decades ago… You knew Maestro X, you did a sort of internship and then they gave you the chair (note: now they are all university professors...)

thallo wrote:

In effect, we are talking about graduates in composition (in the case of composition), but we aren't talking about the actual internal faculty members.

A sort of subcontract? Curious

thallo wrote:

listen up, 1450 euros, which is well more than a year of "official" course.

What a joke, considering we aren't talking about teaching at Santa Cecilia. I would understand if Fedele were running them... but...

thallo wrote:

The course is supposed to prepare you for the admission exam for the three-year degree, but it seems quite common that those coming from the pre-academic courses do not pass the admission exam...

A confirmation that the regulations did not provide for educational continuity, so you finish the pre-academics and… (precisely, what title would they issue? )...and....and.....and...

If you finish musical high school, at least you have a diploma and you can, in case someone is not admitted to AFAM (Higher Education in Art, Music and Dance), "fallback" with great sacrifice and effort to another faculty.

My perplexities on the subject are increasing, what do you think?

The issue of the title finds me in absolute agreement. But from what was being whispered around, even music high schools would not ensure a minimum preparation for admission to three-year degree programs. Oh well, that's what happens with more prestigious university faculties, like medicine, so no scandal (or rather, a scandal that is not limited to AFAM). But given the state of things, it is much better to enroll in a music school other than the conservatory (but I imagine there are very few that have actual composition courses) or to take lessons from a private teacher. At least there isn't an annual tuition fee... at this point, since the world doesn't change with good intentions, it would almost be worth going for private lessons directly from the internal professors! I'm not saying weekly, but two months before admission, yes...

thallo wrote:

it would almost be worth it to go to private lessons directly from the internal professors!

I find it absurd... but that's how it is...