Problem When Listening To The Beats

But first of all, the side strings of the notes consisting of three strings must be isolated. Then, the major third interval will be increased until the desired beats per second are obtained. However, one must work on one string for each note. Reblitz's exercise is good.

Good evening, thank you Mr. Ferrarelli for the answer, I certainly explained myself poorly, I muted the outer strings of notes F21 and A25 but playing the 2 notes with energy and holding the keys pressed until the sound fades out, I simply do not hear the beats, it is a unison sound. Mine was just curiosity, I do not need to intervene on the piano since it was tuned 2 weeks ago, I only wanted to verify what the book says and learn how to have the perception of the beats. Thank you again, good evening.

If you don't hear the thirds beating, something is wrong... The thirds are quite evident. At this point: there are only three possible motivations in my opinion; the first is that the piano is not tuned (if you hear steady thirds, it means the harmonic ratios have not been respected), the second is that your ear cannot perceive the beats—not everyone hears them, or rather, not everyone can hear the beats at all frequencies, the third is that perhaps you are playing the wrong interval (You play F2 - A2 while for the octave division, from F3 to F4, so you must have the 7 beats in F3 - A3). Try listening to the tenths in the second octave starting from the bottom, which are even more evident, for example C2 - E3. If the piano has just been tuned and you can hear the tenths in the bass but not the thirds around the middle octave, then perhaps you cannot hear the beats at certain frequencies.

Anyway, there is something to be said: if you are referring to the thirds F2 - A2 that you call F22 - A25, well, there you are in the bass zone; the thirds there have already slowed down considerably, they are very slow! Perhaps you meant the tenth F2 - A3. There, perhaps we are close with those 7 beats per second. Or rather, exactly 7 beats per second must be between F3 - A3 and not F2 to A2! In the octave division, it closes with Db4 - F4 with 13 beats per second, assuming you tune by thirds and not by ascending fourths and descending fifths.

At least that is what the books I have read say... Then Paolo will tell us more.

TheSimon's analysis is perfect, from a physical and physiological point of view.

In the system there are: the strings, the air, your ear, and your nervous system/brain.

Realistically, we cannot assume that the air in your area does not behave as it does elsewhere!

So, if beats are generated at the source (the strings), beats arrive at the target (ear). If you do not perceive them, then one of the following is true: 1. They are not being generated; 2. They are not being perceived.

Since you are talking about beats, I assume you are capable of understanding them; however, it could be that you don't hear them at certain frequencies due to the limitations of your nervous system's low-pass filter.

To find out if this is the case, you can perform a test - for example with a guitar - by plucking two adjacent strings and playing unisons, then slowly detuning one of them (both up and down):

1. E low (6th string, 5th position), A (5th string, open)

2. A (5th string, 5th position), D (4th string, open)

3. D (4th string, 5th position), G (3rd string, open)

See if the perception of the beats changes or not. If it doesn't change, then you are the one who is not perceiving them well (this is not an unsolvable problem; generally, it is addressed with practice).

If you hear the beats at different frequencies (try loosening/tightening the guitar's A several times and retuning the D and E low), try to see if you don't hear any beats at all at different intervals.

You can also post an audio recording of what you are doing on the piano, with pairs of long sounds until decay and intervals of a few seconds; in that case, as the first note, please play middle C (or A 440/442). This will also resolve the question about which notes you are actually playing.

Good morning, thank you truly to everyone, I am at work, I have just read the messages, as soon as I get home I will immediately carry out the checks with your advice. What I can say is that for the notes I used the nomenclature from the book e.g. (F21 twenty-first key counted from the left front of the piano). regarding the perception of beats, when the tuner was working, I heard them very well, now of course I cannot say at what frequency. Anyway, I will do my tests; after what you have written, I have surely made a mistake somewhere. The test with the guitar is interesting, I will let you know as soon as possible, thank you.

Regards,

Riccardo.

Good morning, so, I did the experiment that Gennarino recommended to me in all three steps; the beats can be heard and how, then I went back to the piano and tried the sequence of intervals that The Simon told me about, but nothing works. I can perceive something in the tenth F2-A3 and in the third F3-A3, but they are not true beats, it's like a cyclic sound, a kind of period that closes and restarts after more than a second (it's hard to explain in words). Now I will see if I can make an audio file, I hope of good quality. I searched online to see if there are indeed audio files of intervals played on the piano but nothing. If someone could send me some files where the correct intervals can be heard, at least I would know if it depends on me or the piano.

Hi.

Perhaps the piano is not well tuned? Actually, one starts precisely with the thirds. The "progression of thirds". The thirds increase in speed in beats: FA-LA, LA - DO DIESIS DO DIESIS FA, FA - LA.

Good evening, perhaps I have finally listened to the beats on the piano, not on mine, but on Mr. Ferrarelli's in the video tutorial: tuning and intonation. That cyclic sound I was hearing on my piano was indeed a beat, but I thought it wasn't because it was too slow; even when Ferrarelli points with his hand to the beat between F-C and its inversion C-F, you notice it is a rather slow movement, about one per second. So where are those 7, 8, 9 beats per second that the book indicates?

Tomorrow I will post the audio files of my piano. Bye, Have a good day

But Ma do fa is a fourth and fa do is a fifth, the beats of the thirds within the same octave are much faster. The thirds must sing...

We are waiting for your audio files

tomorrow I will try to send the files, I hope they are of satisfactory quality. thanks bye.

hi, here I am again, I made the keyboard with thirds: F-A, A-Db, Db-F, but it won't let me attach the file, it's a simple 2.5 MB .WMA file, I tried several times even with the new uploader but nothing works

wma ? mp3 please...

Hi, I converted the file, it has uploaded now; there is a background hiss but that definitely depends on the microphone and the program, which I don't know and could surely be set better, but unfortunately I have little time. Anyway, doing some tests with Dirk Piano Tuner (trial version), I saw that the piano is outside the temperament curve; in my opinion, the tuner didn't do a great job. Bye

OUT OF TUNE !!

Anyway, it makes no sense to play all the thirds from bottom to top; you have to play those of the middle octave. The division is made there, and then the octaves are distributed across the entire keyboard. It is normal for them to be very slow in the bass, and in the treble register, the sound is too short and the thirds too fast to be heard.

Well, thanks The Simon, 150 euros of tuning wasted, I had a feeling. You said the first partition is done in the middle octave and that's fine, but then how do I bring the octaves back across the whole keyboard, I'm asking you just for informational purposes.

150 euros ??? Holy crap!! Excuse my colorful expression...

Anyway, you have to see: whether they only did the tuning or also the voicing, if your piano is old (in this case there can be problems with tuning stability), and so on.

Once the division of the middle octave has been done, for each note of the octave, the lower and upper octaves are reported (they must not have beats); the check is performed on notes taken two octaves apart and on fifths two octaves apart, they must not beat...

no, no... alright damn it, I'm adding the rest too..... the piano is from the 80s, I bought it about a month ago, but the mechanics are new, practically never used and unfortunately not even tuned. It should hold the tuning; with the trial version of the program I told you about before, you can test all the octaves of E A and C and they are all centered, though of course it doesn't allow you to test other intervals. But I felt it, when he pulled out the digital tuner I thought: "well, this is starting off badly". Oh well.... all part of the art that comes with it....!!!

But look... There is digital tuner and digital tuner. The important thing is to have a digital tuner that considers inharmonicity. Chromatic tuners are not good, in the most absolute sense! I believe your tuner used exactly one of these.

Well....I don't think I looked at the instrument closely, it was a TLA-CTS 5 with preset temperaments, anyway... the fact remains that the piano is out of tune. Thanks again. bye.