Guide to buying a new/used piano

purchase advice W. Hoffmann upright

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Started by

Minormoods

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Opening post by Minormoods

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3
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Trento

Good evening everyone, I am a beginner who, after a couple of years of studying on a digital piano, would like to move to an acoustic one.

I have visited many shops, tried dozens of instruments… new Yamahas, used ones, refurbished ones, Kawais, a 20-year-old Schimmel 130cm tall, still Yamaha, new, silent, worn out, new Schulze Pollmann, a few Petrofs, some rather "old" Steinways, until one day I happened to lay my hands on a brand new W. Hoffmann P126… and I was truly moved, understanding what people write on various forums like: "pianos must be tried; when you find the right one, it's love at first sight..." and I always thought, yes they must be tried, I agree, but if someone knows how to play little or nothing like me, it is not so easy to realize the voice, the timbre, the sensitivity of the action; in any case, for those four notes that my hands have learned to play, I liked it a lot..

That being said, I have the need to have a silent system, perhaps factory-installed, because according to many—actually, I would say everyone—they are much more reliable and precise, and Yamaha is the leader in this; Kawai doesn't convince me too much; what remains, as far as I know, is Bechstein and therefore W. Hoffmann, who charges a lot for the silent system, very much, extremely much… (2450 little euros for the upright, 4400 big euros for the grand) however, I have searched the web, but no news can be found regarding this system: merits, defects, praises, or anything else.

Nor for the W. Hoffmann P126 piano, very little information and opinions. From what I can gather, it seems to be a really well-made piano, apparently built entirely in the Czech Republic with German/European materials, under Bechstein supervision which, in short, is not exactly a newcomer...

I would be truly grateful if someone expert or even not too much, who owns it or has had the chance to try it, would tell me their impressions of this instrument. In short, given the price, I would like to make a good, reliable purchase that can accompany me peacefully for many years.

I have had the chance to try the more economical Hoffmann line, specifically the V120 and V126 models; I liked these very much too, although it seems to me the P126 has an extra gear, also in terms of keyboard feeling, but perhaps the 2500 euro difference between the two lines is not so justified.

I thank anyone who can give me their personal impression of these pianos and perhaps also on the silent system (Bechstein Vario system).

And compliments again on the website!

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Reply 2 by pianoexpert

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3,876
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rocca di papa

It is known, personally I do not love the Silent system. Anyway, I read that you have conducted a very thorough investigation. It strikes me that you tried high-end brand pianos like Steinway and Schimmel and then turned to an Offmann. For goodness' sake, it should be an excellent instrument also thanks to its size, but I would have been curious to delve deeper and consider the others as well. Kawai also makes excellent Silent models, as does Yamaha. I have noticed that several friends who own one find themselves a bit in difficulty with assistance if something goes wrong with the Silent system. Some technicians write to me privately asking for "tips" that I wouldn't know how to provide regarding "minor glitches" of the system. I believe that a decent second "digital" piano for studying with headphones is more appropriate. The amount to be allocated is about the same and one does not possess a "hybrid" system. This is my thought, without taking away from the ingenious patent.

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Reply 3 by Thesimon

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4,504
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Ariccia, RM

I am of the same opinion regarding the silent system. When you are going to spend 2500 euros to "modify" your own piano, then it is better to spend them on a good digital keyboard, and I assure you that with that amount you can get a high-end digital one. Plus, you have the opportunity to transport it easily if needed. For example, if you want to go on vacation without giving up spending a few hours at the piano. I believe the silent system is more useful in other contexts nowadays, where aesthetics also play a part. For example, in a live concert where amplifying an acoustic piano can be a problem, you take the output from the silent system to bring to the mixer. To everyone's sight, the sound comes from an acoustic because the piano is acoustic, and thus the eyes deceive the ears. Or in recordings where you need to make a video with good quality audio without buying equipment that costs several thousand euros, while still visually maintaining the style of an acoustic piano.

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Reply 4 by Minormoods

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3
City
Trento

I thank you for your observations, let me briefly explain my situation… unfortunately my work allows me to get home around 7 PM, my little dog waits for me anxiously to go for a little walk and to "atone for her sins"… the municipal regulations that the condominium here follows allow the use of musical instruments from 9 to 12 and from 4 to 8 PM, so the acoustic time is reduced to a few hours during the week and then on Saturday and Sunday. I assure you that I am also skeptical about these hybrid systems and usually in life I am of the opinion that things that do a bit of one thing and a bit of another are not always the best choice; to each their own task done well. I have just sold two digitals, one with a Roland cabinet and one Kawai stage piano that I kept at my parents' house for when I went to visit them, sold to "alleviate" the expense of an acoustic. I tell you this because, first of all, I don't have the physical space to keep two pianos in the house, and then there is the problem of the mechanics, the sensation under the fingers, that stroke the hammer makes, that perfect balance between all the components and levers that fascinates me so much and I feel it (or probably only imagine it) in my hands; I don't know if this is the "touch" people often talk about, anyway maybe I am being a bit exaggerated but that resistance of an acoustic keyboard gives me a pleasure I cannot explain...

Please do not take me for a psychiatric case

for paolo: the Steinways I tried must have been from the first decades of the twentieth century, and by eye not very well maintained, from 5 to 7 thousand euros… as for the Schimmel 130, a beautiful instrument, well-made, impeccable details, very beautiful sound, powerful, round, but I had never laid my hands on keys so "heavy, hard, tiring"; among other things, I had a pianist try it who knows much more than me, and he agreed on this aspect... in the same shop as the Steinways and when I kindly asked the dealer why this heaviness and that maybe it wasn't the fault of the cashmere felts or something else, he told me that real Germans are like that, period, and then he insulted me believing I was accusing him of selling me a fake or counterfeit instrument, walking away to another customer… well, I was left stunned.

I confess to you that I was quite interested in the Schimmel after seeing your praise for this instrument in other discussions, and every time I see one I look at it with respect, also because after seeing your videos on the journey inside the piano I consider you a "guru" of this world, with a truly remarkable wealth of knowledge and experience, and something not to be underestimated is that you are both a technician and a pianist, two things that are difficult to combine in one person; in fact, I take the opportunity to thank you for making this long tutorial available to everyone, really well made and minutely explained.

All this has led me to orient myself towards this W. Hoffmann P126 Vario… In any case, it seems to me that neither you nor Simone have had the chance to try this model, and I invite you, should you have the opportunity, to try it for a few minutes; in my very modest opinion, for the price it has, it is worth considering. Perhaps in the meantime someone else will come forward with some opinions

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Reply 5 by pianoexpert

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rocca di papa

Dear Friend, that "heaviness" you feel can be eliminated by replacing the mechanical pins. It is no small job... but then again, you have a Schimmel. Sometimes the Schimmel "resists" even at the level of the damper mechanism. It needs to be technically examined. Speaking of Steinways: uprights? They should be seen!!!! They are very interesting. Anyway, it's up to you. I believe that then, given the time you have to dedicate to studying, you could purchase a very nice digital piano (even if we agree with you that an acoustic is something else!) while waiting for better times and better opportunities. An instrument is never definitive, and when purchasing, one must simulate being able to resell it the next day. Of course, these big brands must be examined, perhaps checking the condition of the soundboard, the strings, and the hammers. Especially if there are cracks or swellings on the soundboard and if there is irreversible damage. In one of my video tutorials, I advise on how to examine a used piano for purchase. Buying a Steinway for 5,000 euros could be interesting, and it could be interesting to restore it to its former glory. Naturally, these are all just my ideas. The digital piano, however, is always convenient for studying at specific times of the day or in the evening without disturbing anyone. That remains true. For a little more than 1,000 euros, one can purchase a decent digital piano. I have a Roland FP-7 and I even prepare concerts on it.

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