QUESTION OF TONICS

Is it a trick question?

According to a certain "logic," I feel compelled to say that the C-F interval can obviously be given in inversion, forming a perfect 4th in the first case and, in the second case, a

perfect 5th (with the interval given in an inverted state), but one could say the same thing (and all the more so) for the interval between C-G, since the latter is a more "stable" interval.

That would be too simple and practically wouldn't make sense, so I await responses from others, as it seems clear to me that there is

something that goes far beyond the simple interval and its inversion.

I'll start by apologizing to Modale, I pressed the wrong key and accidentally deleted part of their message.

I am asking if it is possible to repost it, anyway I had read everything and

> In your opinion, what is the tonic of the C-F interval, and for what reason?

Harmonic or melodic interval?

By the way... Modale, what happened to your Avatar?

For Frank,

i reposted the message.

Excuse me, what is an Avatar?

I do not believe there is a difference, from the point of view of the tonic of the interval, whether the notes are played consecutively or simultaneously because the physical qualities of the individual notes constituting the interval are constant regardless of consonance and dissonance.

Instead, it could change in the sense that a chord alone says little or nothing in a tonal context; in reality, even just 2 notes say little, but at least they are 2 elements and not one.

Tonalitity is made of relationships, a relationship that can exist between at least 2 elements, therefore:

C and F melodically can be understood as:

V of F major or F minor

I IV of C major or minor

III and VI of A minor

etc.

C-F harmonically is a dyad found in a lot of harmonies.

> Excuse me, what is an Avatar?

The photo ...that I notice you put back

In the tonal system, a dyad does not establish clear relationships. If the do-fa dyad is found in a piece where all the other dyads you mentioned are present, however, it clearly identifies the tonic function for do and the subdominant function for fa.

As they say, when you press "let's consider the C ionian scale," you are actually already giving the answer. And it is so obvious and banal that it embarrasses me to say it...

Crystal clear, having read it only once quickly before the "incident" I hadn't dwelled on "the C Ionian scale: C-D-E-F-G-A-B"

What I wrote remains valid, because as I was saying 2 notes or a dyad are too little and we don't know at what point of the musical discussion we are... therefore any modulations that may be necessary

Piccinesco wrote:

Is it a trick question?

I wouldn't know, Modale what did you have in mind?

I propose a discussion with another type of statement since there is a bit of confusion.

What is the tonic of a perfect fourth interval?

Excuse me Modale: since when does an interval have a tonic?

It is true that the interval of a fourth makes one feel more dominant-tonic than the reverse (but it is the context in which it is inserted that ultimately makes the difference).

But it is also true that a modulation to the fourth degree makes this feel exactly like a fourth and not like a tonic, at least until I negate the old tonic and the new one is strongly confirmed (if I play C C7 F, then the first choice is G7 C, not Bb C7 F).

... assuming that I don't find confusion in the answers

modale wrote:

What is the tonic of a perfect fourth interval?

As Zedef says, "since when does an interval have a tonic?", it seemed to me that I had already written it; it is just a bichord.

If you are interested in the perceptual aspect, try working on the natural harmonics of the two single sounds played in succession.

Of course an interval possesses a tonic; if we play C, the overtones that arise from C are many, as we all know, and between C and the overtones, the tonic is C.

But between C and F, perhaps the same rule does not apply! What do you think?.

I invite everyone to conduct research in the literature.

What do you mean by overtones?

Well, go to this link

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suoni_armonici.jpg

Ok, you meant harmonics... since Frank had used this term and you were talking about overtones, I thought there was something else implied.

I don't think harmonics are used to establish a key within an interval, also because for example to establish a key, a characteristic degree is needed, whether tonal or modal, and a well-defined scalar structure.

modale wrote:

Always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

What do you propose?

The concept of the tonic has nothing to do with harmonics, not even in a scale and not even in tonal harmony; otherwise, inversions would change the function of the chord, which only happens in rare, historical cases, and by convention (see the second inversion of the tonic chord).

Of course an interval possesses a tonic; if we play C, the overtones that arise from C are many, as we all know, and between C and the overtones, the tonic is C.

do we want to define the word "interval" or do we want to give everyone a different meaning for words? Intervals are calculated between REAL sounds, not between harmonics. To say that a C is the tonic of its own harmonic series is simply saying a complete STUPIDITY. I am sorry to be so heavy-handed, but many of modale's interventions seem placed as if they were enigmatic revelations, while they are often full of "linguistic metaphors". In acoustics, the mere use of the term "Do" or "C" (I imagine Anglo-Saxon notation looks cool, I don't know) is an imprecision, because in the harmonic series there is no equality of octaves. That is, there are MANY Cs. But the harmonic series IS NOT a scale and therefore the term "tonic" has no reason to be used when talking about the harmonic series. Furthermore, if we talk about intervals and harmonic sounds (that is, consonances and dissonances, not harmonies), I would be truly curious to understand why in the C-A interval the "tonic" (or, just throwing it out there, the sound that expresses the most consonant and therefore most stable harmonic series) is C, when it is known that A appears as the TWENTY-FIFTH harmonic of C while C appears as the nineteenth harmonic of A. Same issue for the C-D interval: the second (Pythagorean) appears AFTER the minor seventh (septimal) in the harmonic series; therefore, according to our DIY harmonic theory, between C and D it is D that expresses the most consonant and stable harmonic spectrum.

The reality is that all harmonic functions and criteria are "inspired" by acoustic processes, but adapted to artistic needs. To produce the 'dove's egg' (the perfect solution) of this discussion—namely, that tonic harmonies can function as the dominant of the subdominant—there is no need to involve harmonics; one only needs to look at the history of music...

thallo wrote:

To give birth to the dove's egg of this discussion, namely that tonic harmonies can function as the dominant of the subdominant, there is no need to bother with harmonics; one only needs to look at music history...

Ah, was this the goal of the topic?