Hi everyone, I need some tips regarding the study of fast pieces. I am mainly studying jazz piano, and in recent months I have also dedicated myself to studying Bach's famous preludes from The Well-Tempered Clavier, as well as nocturnes by contemporary authors that are not very complicated but are fast.
The "problem" is that I am struggling to manage them since I have in play preludes 2, 3, and 5 at about 80 bpm quite cleanly, and the other 3 or 4 nocturnes which have roughly the same speed.
Right now, I practice a couple of them per day for half an hour each, first with a metronome and then freely, but I see that I am still struggling to increase the speeds.
What would you advise me? Are there too many pieces in play? And if, in that case, I were to read others, should I consider them only as reading material and not studies until I have finished with these?
Thank you for your patience
G
gianni22
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Reply 2 by gianni22
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159
While waiting for someone to answer you, maybe you will find some inspiration in this discussion I opened a while ago
The "problem" is that I struggle to manage them since I have preludes 2, 3, and 5 in play at about 80 bpm quite cleanly, and the other 3 or 4 nocturnes which have roughly the same speed.
Are you making it a question of tempo or fatigue?
arcatoto wrote:
Right now, I play a couple every day for half an hour each, first with a metronome and then freely, but I see that I still struggle to increase the speeds.
Rhythmic variations for this purpose are a godsend; even studying hands separately (or voices separately for Bach's fugues) removes many problems and allows you to reach higher speeds for the individual hands—hopefully more than may be needed...
arcatoto wrote:
What would you advise me, are there too many pieces in play? And if, in that case, I were to read others, should I then consider them only as reading material and not studies, until I have finished with these?
I was taught that you learn more from a little done well than from a lot done poorly; take a good variety of pieces. For example, one Chopin nocturne, a Bach prelude and fugue, and a piece by another composer, and bring them up to level.
When these are working, integrate the next ones... doing the maintenance work afterwards to bring them to maturity.
In terms of physical stress, everything seems okay at these speeds; it's just that I can't make them perfect, I smudge some points (not always the same ones), but I feel that technically the practice speed is right, so it seems more like something related to memory/concentration. Obviously, first and foremost, I must halve the pieces as you also recommended.
Thank you for the answers
T
ttw
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Reply 5 by ttw
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277
Watch out not to practice mistakes
Sometimes slow practice is also needed to better fix what to do later at speed.
In fact, today I tried to work on prelude 3 in the following way: very slow execution (with eyes closed to better mentally visualize the notes and increase concentration), then study speed with a metronome (around 50 bpm in a compound meter), and finally free performance of the piece, following my inner ear; obviously, I pause every time an error occurs. Study duration approximately 40 min. Let's see in a few weeks how the 3 selected pieces will evolve
T
ttw
Member
Reply 7 by ttw
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277
Just a clarification because I believe it is important: rallentando and not slow. It might seem the same, but there could be a substantial difference..:.
My modest suggestion is to adopt an execution with a "stop" on the beat unit. One can perform at a certain speed, perfectly controlling what happens between one stop and the next. The "stop" occurs on the beat unit. But it can also occur at the beginning of every measure. There are two paths: 1) playing rapidly by repeating, restarting, the note or notes of the destination point (stop with repetition) 2) playing rapidly without repeating the note or notes of the destination point (stop without repetition). Maximum concentration. The stop can last as long as desired. The important thing is that, when restarting, one must not stop for any reason until the destination point. Only afterwards will inaccuracies be evaluated. Listening becomes more analytical and the technical gestures will be those that must be used at speed. In a short time, working on phrases with patience, one will be able to perform increasingly longer fragments at speed. Furthermore, avoid over-emphasizing accents; instead, energetically value what is played between one accent and the next.
I would also like to suggest that, when aspiring to a fast execution, one should decrease the accentuations. The same piece in 4/4, performed in 2, at the same metronomic speed, will seem faster. Get used, even at a moderate "preliminary" speed, to thinking about accentuations as if performing quickly. Thus, even moderately, a 3/4 that must be "fast" must be thought of in 1!!
As far as I am concerned, with this method, coming from the teachings passed down by the Carlo Zecchi School, I have obtained excellent and rapid results
L
lory
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Reply 9 by lory
Posts
106
I have never tried this solution, I will try it. I was thinking that I have never seen any of his performances here on the forum, except for the videos on piano technique which, however, cannot be considered actual performances. This came to mind because I have read so many tips and seen so many tips in videos, but I have never then seen how he applies these principles in a real performance. Are there no videos of his also on YouTube that you would like to share?
I don't have videos, but I have some amateur recordings. I don't like video recording my concerts (which are currently rather sparse over time). Anyway, all suggestions and opinions come from lived experiences. Even in my few videos, although in fragments, the pieces are performed (see the first and second movements of Mozart's Sonata K330). The four-hand sonata that I recorded with Simone Renzi, on the other hand, is complete. Perhaps I am more intent on identifying technical solutions. Currently, I don't have much time to bring back into performance various pieces studied in the past. Furthermore, for several years I dedicated myself to the Theater, an experience that has now ended. At the same time, I remember having accompanied many singers. An interesting experience. In short, experiences not only as a solo performer.
It is right to verify during performance whether what is said is true. Everything can be true and everything can be false. Here, I am interested in opening a front of discussion. I am little interested in showing off. I believe it is useful to exchange, I say exchange, opinions on one's own experiences. Everything is and must be open to debate. Anyway, I think I understood well from the friendly tone that your words would mean: "well, but I have never seen you play!!!!" Agreed. So I will post some tape recordings I made live (no corrections), in concert, a few years ago of Schubert's Wanderer and Debussy's Estampes, perhaps even a Beethoven Appassionata. I like those. I ask for patience because I must shamefully ask for help to post the Audios........
P.S: Ah, ah, perhaps I might have a shameful amateur video filmed by a spectator of some pieces, including the Danse sacrée (Danse du feu) from my last concert.... I will recover it.....
By the way, I would like to see and/or hear something of yours. Ciao
The execution technique with pauses is yielding results, also supported by a more careful study of the individual technical movements of the piece, isolating them and progressively mastering them.
Furthermore, my teacher recommended Cramer's studies to me, since I intend to deepen the technical aspect (which I believe is mandatory for everyone), and given that I am not very young (24 years old), I think it is the most effective thing.
As for me, I also liked the Czerny ones very much. I remember very well the toccata that I wanted to bring up to the eighth [octave], every now and then I still practice it.
