Guide to buying a new/used piano

Schulze Pollmann Peacock tail

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giulior

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Opening post by giulior

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16
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grosseto

Hi!!

I intend to change pianos, always buying an upright (I have a Pearl River about 15 years old of Chinese manufacture, so it's not exactly the best, even if for what it is, poor thing, it does its job). The gentleman who tunes my piano gave me the number of someone who sells a Schulze Pollmann (a brand I had already heard of because of the good craftsmanship and the Renner action, but which I never had the chance to try), obviously used. Calling this person, it turned out that the model is called "peacock tail", which refers to the peacock tail finish. I asked him if he could tell me the serial number, but he didn't even know where to look.

About a week later, I went to try the piano.

I must say I was surprised by the excellent condition it is in. The cabinet is perfect and without a scratch, wood colored (I don't know which one) with indeed the peacock tail finish which would also be very beautiful, but if the piano is black, brown, yellow or pink, it doesn't matter much to me. I measured it with a tape measure and with the top lid closed it measures 125 cm (removing the thickness of the lid it's 122 cm, so I don't know if it's a 126 or a 122.... what do you think???). It was bought new about twenty years ago for around EIGHT million (mine was three) and has practically remained in that state. The son, who is now 29, started playing it when he was little, but it only lasted a few years, maybe even months, I don't remember well. And since then it has practically not been played anymore. I touched the tips of the hammers and noticed they were almost smooth!! Plus, I thought I would find a piano so out of tune that I wouldn't even be able to realize what its timbre was like. The gentleman said that after the purchase it was tuned only once by the guy from the shop (who isn't even good), after a few years the piano underwent a move including a hoist from the balcony and has practically not been touched since, given that the son no longer played. But even though much time has passed, the tuning is more or less still the same. It's just a bit "meowing" [unstable], which for me is wonderful since mine practically never holds it and I would have had to have it tuned every three months.

The action is a Renner, the hammers are exactly like new and in general everything is working and clean (except for the penultimate key which remains depressed, but that will surely be something trivial). The keyboard is quite hard but it gave me the sensation that it was "mushy", or "under-oiled". But I assume it also depends on the fact that it has never been played and needs to loosen up a bit, or that it needs regulation, more likely.... I don't know. As for the sound, however, I have some doubts. Not that it sounded bad, but it was a bit strange: in general the timbre is muffled, usually a bad thing, but only in the central part: playing a chromatic scale from the bottom, the timbre becomes muffled after a couple of octaves or a little more and quite suddenly (a few keys difference), to become clearer again in the last two octaves or so. The sensation is like someone suddenly putting their cupped hands over your ears while you listen to music. It's as if it shouldn't be its original sound... I don't know... as if the mute were always down (which obviously wasn't the case). I don't know if this is also due to the fact that the piano has been used little and if it is resolvable. I will probably play it again to get a better idea. In truth, the matter of the timbre might just be my sensation, since being used to playing mine which in sound is quite dry (it is 108 cm high), I might have mistaken a certain fullness of the bass for a muffled sensation.

I will certainly play it again and see if my tuner (who knows how to do his job) can come with me, and I will make a video.

In essence, the day served to confuse my ideas. I am attracted to the SP because of the type of piano it is... German action, Italian production less consumerist, let's say more "old school" etc (but above all because of the price, 1500 euros), but on one hand I am afraid of ending up regretting it because of these "problems" I mentioned before, if they can even be called that.

Give me your views, opinions, advice and anything else.

I wanted to put some photos but I don't know how to get the image URLs and then how to insert them into the forum... can you help me??

Thank youuuu!!!! Giulio

ps.

Just yesterday I saw the video tutorial where advice is given on what to do when going to try a piano. Mr. Ferrarelli, if I remember correctly, at one point talks about the soundboard, saying that if it is "cupped" or deformed it can have various effects on the timbre. But he was talking about old instruments anyway, is it possible that a piano only twenty years old has such a problem??

Me

I hope it's not like that, because otherwise the value of the instrument would be halved, if not worse. Not to mention that an intervention on the soundboard, depending on the case, will certainly be costly. Anyway, next time I go back to see it, I will definitely check.

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Reply 3 by giulior

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16
City
grosseto

This could be an example of the sound that I would like and that I have in mind.

A strange thing I noticed while listening to various brands of pianos on YouTube is that most uprights sound as if they were out of tune, without them actually being so. That is, they don't have that compactness and precision of sound that a grand piano usually has, and they seem very metallic and shallow to me. The piano I linked here, however, does not! The timbre is easily interchangeable with that of a grand piano. And this makes me truly confused.....

Why all this??? Could it perhaps depend on the famous hammer voicing???

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Reply 4 by Boesendorfer

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103
City
Tirol

It will depend on whether it is a Schimmel, the best upright according to Prof. Paolo Ferrarelli and (modestly)

also according to me.

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Reply 5 by giulior

Posts
16
City
grosseto

This also sounds like my kind of thing. I am trying to inform myself as much as possible about the brands and where they are produced.

I really don't want to like the Japanese ones......

What do you recommend to me??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Reply 6 by pianoexpert

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3,876
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rocca di papa

So, assuming a piano has a great voice, it can be prepared to one's own taste. Of course, you cannot give it what it doesn't have through tuning and/or regulation! After this apparently trivial conclusion, I must say that the Schulze Pollmann is an excellent piano. Pay attention to this "impasto" (texture) of the action. It may depend precisely on the fact that it hasn't been played much and, over time, the action pins have acquired a higher coefficient of friction than the correct values. This generates a greater weight for depressing the keys and a lower weight for the return... in short, a sort of "impediment" to the mechanical parts moving. Not bad if the piano is good. The pins can be replaced without much expense. As for the "muffled" sound, one needs to see the condition of the hammers, which visually seem good. The sound can be made brighter. Obviously, speaking of Schimmel, we are on a different level! On the Schulze Pollmann, the "consistency" of the keyboard also depends somewhat on the manufacturer's choice to use rather robust escapement lever springs as well as those for the dampers. But it all remains to be seen. In case you choose this piano, we could evaluate together, with a free visit from me (excluding travel expenses reimbursement), what needs to be done to get it perfectly tuned, if you wish. We are not very far away.

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Reply 7 by giulior

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16
City
grosseto

Finally the expert's answer, thank you Paolo.

Could such a muffled sound depend on a crack or a deformation of the soundboard?

If I were to take that piano, or any other one to be restored, it would be truly very interesting to meet to discuss the various problems regarding its functioning, open and perhaps disassemble the piano to study it and understand its secrets. It would be a lot of fun!

In any case, I will get back to you somehow or through this topic.

Best regards

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Reply 8 by pianoexpert

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If the soundboard is cracked, however, I would recommend ruling it out. The rest remains to be seen. The sustain must be long enough before decay. A muffled sound can depend on the condition of the hammers, but also on a sinking of the soundboard itself. The age of the strings contributes to making the sound less harmonic. But anyway, it all remains to be seen.

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Reply 9 by Davidex

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6
City
Bovolone
Boesendorfer wrote:

It will depend on the fact that it is a Schimmel, the best upright according to Mr. Paolo Ferrarelli and (modestly)

also according to me.

I would be pleased to know a little more in detail what makes you prefer and consider the Schimmel the best upright instrument.

Thank you

Davide

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Reply 10 by pianoexpert

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Let's say that Schimmel has an excellent design and an excellent choice of materials. It sounds good and is considered one of the best upright pianos. Everything affects the result. A good soundboard, good bridge placement, good hitch pin calculation, excellent hammer action, etc. Obviously, other pianos must also be considered of excellent quality... naturally Ibach and Seiler at a still moderate price, and Blüthner, Bösendorfer, Steinway at the top, but at high prices.

Now, both the quality of the instrument and its preparation are important. That is, the correct regulation, tuning, hammer voicing, and checking the strike point of the latter.

Sometimes in a shop or online we hear "harsh," "metallic" pianos because they are not voiced or simply "out of tune." This is nothing to be surprised about. It is certainly difficult to evaluate instruments for comparison when they are not prepared to be listened to, and one often becomes confused in judgment. It is best to try the piano in person, requesting that it be well-prepared. A serious and competent seller will satisfy the pianist, in anticipation of the appreciation they will show for a probable purchase. That is how it should be. Furthermore, listening to an instrument online is equivalent to forming an opinion on "that" specific instrument and not on another model from the same brand.

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Reply 11 by Davidex

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6
City
Bovolone

Regarding the other brands you mention, there are dealers in Italy; does Ibach have any as far as you know? Do they market in Italy?

i I have never heard of Seiler, do you also know if there are shops here where they can be tried?

At the moment I have had the chance to try a Sauter 130, which I consider very good, and also a Pollmann 126

Thank you

DAvide

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Reply 12 by pianoexpert

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The Sauter is very similar to the Seiler. But the Seiler is more refined. In my opinion, some high-end models sound magnificent. One has to look. From April 15th to 18th, there is the Musikmesse in Frankfurt. There, even if it's a great confusion, many brands and many models can be tried out.

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