Restoration

Shaving and voicing of hammers

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Started by

Marti

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Opening post by Marti

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4
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Padova

Hello, I hope someone can help me because I am very anxious.

I purchased a 1985 Kawai grand piano. When I tried it (and I took the time to go and try it several times since I had already had unpleasant experiences) I found a keyboard that was practically perfect! All the sounds were homogeneous and the sound was beautiful and open, but at the same time not too shrill.

I had only requested the installation of the silent system. At the time of delivery, I was told that hammer shaving and voicing had been performed. I was petrified by the news because, in my opinion, there was no need for it. Furthermore, the felts were changed. Now I find myself with a much "harder" keyboard (I don't know why) and with a completely uneven sound, with some notes being brighter, others completely muffled, and others sounding like a drum.

The sound is no longer the same, but what worries me most are those muffled sounds that were previously brighter and the fact that I am having great difficulty managing the forte/piano dynamics. Something I hadn't perceived at all before these interventions. I wonder if the sound will settle on its own by playing it.... But with this shaving and voicing intervention, I fear they have ruined my piano and I am truly distressed!

Why don't all the notes sound the same way?!

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Reply 2 by pianoexpert

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rocca di papa

The voicing should not have been performed! In other posts, I will explain the important reasons! The homogeneity depends on the loss of hammer regulation and the modification of the hammer structure. Furthermore (send photos if you want), the high notes have probably been rounded and the striking point has changed throughout the entire hammer rail, which is fundamental especially on the cantabile and the high notes.

In my opinion, the only option left is to return the instrument or change the hammer rail and shanks, but entrusting the work to an expert technician.

Naturally, bringing the apex of the hammers closer to the wooden core makes the sound much harder, and the smaller amount of felt makes the hammers difficult to regulate.

If you want further clarification, you can also call me at no. 3393395980.

P.S. the issue cannot be fixed by playing it. It might even get worse

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Reply 3 by Marti

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Padova

Thank you for your response. There is someone who told me that the sound, which currently results a bit more muffled, will open up again as the grooves are redone.

To tell the truth, I had the exact same problem on an upright even after completely changing the hammer rail. In practice, with the new hammer rail, the sounds were more muffled than before and there was very little dynamic range between p and f. In fact, the situation was much worse than this even with the new hammer rail (Abel, which are also pre-tuned if I'm not mistaken). I have also tried restored Yamahas with this sound that is so little bright. I even tried a new Steinway and compared to a used one from '74, it had a more closed sound.

In the case where the hammers no longer strike the string all in the same way due to imprecise shaving, I should have a way to demonstrate it but I wouldn't know how.

I could also send you some photos but I have to wait for a technician to come because, with the practice rail, I can't get the hammer rail out... I am afraid of causing damage 😁 (and on this topic too, I would like to understand how much the installation of the practice rail modifies the setup and mechanical regulation 🙄)

Listening to a recording, in reality, the sound appears very sweet and pleasant. And no particular sonic inconsistencies are heard. I am the only one who perceives them while playing.

In any case, thank you very much for leaving me your number. I think I will call you 😉

Thank you for your availability.

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Reply 4 by pianoexpert

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rocca di papa

When the technician comes, try to find out how the action is extracted. Every Silent has some different particularity. Let me know. I am also convinced that the introduction of the Silent could distort and/or limit the fine regulation of the action... but it remains to be seen

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Reply 5 by Marti

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4
City
Padova

Yes, the insertion of the silencer imposes, however little, a lowering of the hammers and you don't have a keyboard that is immediately ready for sound, so to speak. At first it bothered me, but then you get used to it. Certainly, regulation without the silencer is much better!

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Reply 6 by francescochopin90

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City
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Marti wrote:

On 1/4/2021 at 07:58, Marti said:

anche inviarle delle foto ma devo aspettare che mi venga un tecnico perché, con la barra del silent, non riesco a uscire la martelliera... Ho paura di fare danni 😁 (e anche su questo argomento vorrei capire quanto l'installazione del silent va a modificare l'assetto e la regolazione meccanica 🙄)

Hi. Then let me know how they did it? I also have such difficulty

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Reply 9 by NICK

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1
City
BOLOGNA

A very similar problem. My Kawai KG2-E is no longer the same after shaving the hammer rail. I appreciated the regularity of the action and the keyboard despite the heaviness. Pins were replaced, felts were lubricated, and the hammer rail, which was over 30 years old, was shaved. Then they proceeded with the hammer voicing. With the intention of making the sound sweeter, in reality, I know it has been muffled too much. Now I struggle to play and to make the sound come out - especially for lyrical passages - I have to push excessively.

After playing yesterday for 1 and a half hours, I have a terrible pain in my wrist and I am quite disheartened.

I contacted a professional technician who is also highly regarded for doing this. Perhaps I gave some wrong instructions when the piano was completely open.... whereas I always play it closed with the music desk placed on top because the ambience is low.

I hope it can be reversed somehow.... at least with the voicing

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Reply 10 by pianoexpert

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Nick and I spoke on the phone, so I know the problem and we have discussed it.

I would like to make some observations of a Musical nature and a technical nature.

Let's say that when we sit at the piano, we must consider that we are quite far from the sound we produce. The optimal approach would, ideally, be one that allows us to imagine the entire mechanics, down to the hammer striking the string, as an extension of our fingers. This TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE GOOD WORKING OF THE MECHANICS WHICH MUST HAVE THE RIGHT FRICTION and ensures that there is the right key depression weight, but above all, the right return weight. The good ratio between these two values and a good regulation produces dynamics in the keyboard and allows us to play difficult passages with ease. Even the key weighting must not be excessive. For example, a mechanism where hammers that are too heavy have been replaced and with a balanced keyboard by adding lead weights will not have the same dynamics as a less weighted keyboard. This is extremely important for our good approach to the instrument.

Over time, the hammers mark themselves against the strings, the sound becomes brighter, perhaps too much... and we get used to all this... until, however, we feel the need to obtain a more compact sound.

This is not possible unless replacing the hammers of the same type, size, drilling, and inclinations. The life of the sound returns to the beginning, it returns to that sound to which we were no longer accustomed... and then we feel the instrument sounds little. Unless the hammer voicing or regulation was incorrect, the hammers themselves will mark over time, gradually producing a more open sound.

Shaving, as already mentioned, with subsequent voicing modifies the geometry of the mechanics and, by reducing the distance between the crown and the wood core, generates a sound that is certainly harder (even if compensated for by voicing attempts).

If this subsequent voicing is done excessively and in the wrong areas of the hammer, the intervention can be irreversible.

Regulation can also affect the sound. For example, one or two tenths more of let-off depth can make the piano more resonant, as can a slight increase in the hammer-string distance. It will be the technician's responsibility, subsequently, to quickly recover these slight variations in distance using shims.

It would also be worth stopping to talk about piano technique, but I only want to say (as I have repeated other times) that the sound obtained from greater gravitation, combined with the preparation of a homogeneous hammer voicing, generates a magnificent cantabile. Listen to Rubinstein's records, where the right hand plays sincerely forte and legato even in the piano. He declared that "sincere" gravitation, especially of the right hand, by relying more on the support of the fingers, produces security and cantability. A voicing, for example, that has become very harsh, too bright, etc... discourages the pianist from producing this "sound worked in depth" and habituates them to less support on the bottom of the key.

When the voicing is changed, this lesser support, gravitation, produces a sound that "struggles to come out," especially in the cantabile. The great pianist, whom I have had the fortune to listen to live and with whom I have spoken more than once, did not spare us young people (and not only—Pollini also speaks of it), thirsty for secrets, often exemplifying this mode of approach. I assure you that the weight of his fingers on our shoulder was impressive.

Naturally, this development of energy does not come from "muscular effort" but rather from the control of our "tension-free" musculature. I point to the wonderful book by Monique Deschausses "L'Homme et le piano" which treats this very concept magnificently. From the same author is the book on Chopin's 24 studies. ...The French is understandable ...

I always talk too much......

Good Music

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