Sonata Form Workshop 2012

raffaeleb wrote:

I will also make two versions or perhaps 3...

It is fine that this workshop was also born from your requests and you feel the moral duty to let us hear your version ...but as many as 3!

...in effect I was losing hope. Luckily there's AleGozzo, always punctual as a Swiss watch :) :D

Frank wrote:

I don't know how RSrauss is doing, whether he got lost on my Agnus Dei, but for those who have already asked me for news about the original, regardless, I will pass on the references in the first week of November

I struggled a bit with the audio, but I plan to deliver tomorrow evening.

I wanted to say 3 instrumentations Anyway let's see what I can do. I hope to publish by the end of the year.

rstrauss wrote:

I struggled a bit with the audio, but I plan to deliver tomorrow evening.

I noticed that you posted your work

I just downloaded it....

Comment on RStrauss's.

You struggled with the theme, but from measure 32 you seem much more at ease; the fact that you gained confidence in your preferred environment allowed you to give new energy to the reprise. A question: why do the eighth notes stop at measure 4? It almost seems like a typo... is it intentional? In fact, it happens again later, but there it seems truly premature... it's as if you interrupted my coitus.

The adherence to the material seems good, a pity about the initial part... a bit strained. Anyway, finishing a large-scale work is a great satisfaction, well done.

Talentuoso wrote:

Comment on RStrauss's post.

You struggled with the theme, and from measure 32 you seem much more at ease; the fact that you gained confidence in your preferred environment allowed you to give new energy to the reprise. A question: why do the eighth notes stop at measure 4? It almost seems like a typo... is it intentional? In fact, it happens again later, but there it seems truly premature... it's as if you interrupted my intercourse.

The adherence to the material seems good to me, a pity about the initial part... a bit strained. Anyway, finishing a large-scale work is a great satisfaction, well done.

yes, I struggled with the theme and quite a bit; in fact, from 32 onwards I felt free, and you have no idea how much... but I had imposed it upon myself to succeed... the result is hit-or-miss, but it holds up nonetheless.

At meas. 4, the proposed theme is just like that without the eighth notes... sincerely, I didn't think about adding them and in the end, it felt right this way to distinguish the theme from the response.

Strauss piece:

Overall, I would say you managed quite well, but I also perceived the struggle in the 1st theme, while the 2nd is decidedly more fluid and effective.

The impression is that you scraped through the 1st theme with a couple of tricks that were perhaps a bit predictable, such as always maintaining the same rhythmic element, livened up by triplets. In short, you played it on the texture.

Then it seems to me that this time, exceptionally, you overdid it with the economy of means. It is rather repetitive and the eighth+dotted quarter note figure is obsessively present without being contrasted by other elements of variety.

In short, the real criticism is that you could have put in a bit of that flair and fantasy that you usually abuse.

Frank's piece

UHhh what a huge job !!!

It's going to take some sweat to write a review

I need a hand making sense of the RStrauss piece, I mean on a formal level ... I haven't quite managed to reduce everything to a sonata form. My limit obviously, but if any indications were to arrive (even regarding tonal paths) ... thanks in advance.

Anyway, it is an enjoyable work, I am a bit inexperienced to pick apart every detail... however, it seems to me that the thematic material has been used in the piece (perhaps little chromaticism).

Damn.. Frank, you worked your butt off. Not that the others didn't contribute... but just looking at the lineup and the timing...

Ale is right, it takes a while to digest all this stuff...

AleGozzo wrote:

Strauss piece:

Overall, I would say you did quite well, but I also perceived the struggle in the 1st theme, whereas the 2nd is decidedly more fluid and effective.

The impression is that you got through the 1st theme with a couple of tricks that were perhaps a bit predictable, such as always maintaining the same rhythmic element, livened up by triplets. In short, you played it safe with the texture.

contrary to what I usually do ... it's just that I took refuge in technique because the theme just wasn't sitting right with me.

It is definitely difficult to work on a theme that isn't yours and that you don't even like, but oh well...

AleGozzo wrote:

Also, it seems to me that this time, exceptionally, you overdid it with the economy of means. It is rather repetitive, and the dotted eighth+quarter figure is obsessively present without being contrasted by other elements of variety.

i agree ... I stayed within the scope of this theme which is not in my wheelhouse, but nonetheless I believe I managed to get by somehow.

AleGozzo wrote:

In short, the real criticism is that you could have put in a bit of that flair and fantasy that you usually abuse

there, I knew it!

Frank never misses an opportunity to tell me that with what I put into my pieces they could write at least two more, and now you're telling me that here, exactly what I do best is missing...

then I will find the right balance.

thanks anyway for the criticisms.

Zaccaria wrote:

I need a hand making sense of the RStrauss piece, I mean on a formal level ... I haven't quite managed to reduce everything to sonata form. My limitation obviously, but if any indications were to arrive (even regarding tonal paths) ... thanks in advance.

Anyway, it is an enjoyable work; I am a bit inexperienced to pick apart the details... however, it seems to me that the thematic material has been used in the piece (perhaps little chromaticism).

sonata form as a second movement or slow movement involves, in addition to the classic form with exposition, recapitulation, etc., also the song form.

i'll give you an example: Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 22 in C major, the one with the central movement in F major and the triplets ... if you analyze it, the form will immediately appear clear to you.

rstrauss wrote:

It is definitely difficult to work on a theme that isn't yours

Very true, I find it an opportunity to grow ... the risk sometimes is (staying always with one's own material) of remaining confined within oneself and being led not to improve.

rstrauss wrote:

that you don't even like

the bad luck is (in my opinion) that for you it is too contrapuntal and is based on a neoclassical harmony, so as far as taste goes... we are quite a bit behind your much-loved romanticism

In short, it has everything. Ale enjoyed it, I haven't listened to Frank's yet but I have downloaded it

rstrauss wrote:

anyway I believe I managed to get by somehow.

In my opinion you pulled it off, it is not an easy theme

rstrauss wrote:

I will find the right measure.

Effectively you seemed more minimalist than usual to me, so you gained in coherence ... the path is certainly good. And besides, I wouldn't get too depressed; I am here chatting and you have climbed this mountain and the result is appreciable from several points of view.

In my opinion, a contrapuntal theme requires an evolution in this field; in fact, I find AleGozzo's string version successful. If one removes the 'pianism' from one's feet, one is freer to express oneself within the canons required by the theme.

If I were you, I would also propose a short piece for quartet, and it can also help greatly to later propose a piano reduction of the same.

I just realized that there is a substantial typo in the score of my piece that I posted; the piece is for piano 4 hands and not for 2 pianos ...damn Finale

I have corrected and reposted the score...obviously the notes are the same

rstrauss wrote:

i just couldn't get my head around the theme.

Too bad, I didn't realize when I proposed it ...

Frank wrote:

substantial

?

rstrauss wrote:

sonata form as a second movement or slow movement includes, in addition to the classic form with exposition, recapitulation, etc., also the song form.

i'll give you an example: Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 22 in C major, the one with the central movement in F major and the triplets ... if you analyze it, the form will immediately appear clear to you.

...now it's getting better ...

Jokes aside, I am working on it

Frank wrote:

Too bad, I hadn't realized when I proposed it ...

we would miss Frank ... it's perfectly fine and as AbateFaria says, working on uncomfortable themes is good and above all, as Abate has noted as always, I was more minimalist, which is definitely positive since this time I took things out instead of adding them ...